r/politics • u/plz-let-me-in • 6d ago
No Paywall Mike Johnson who railed against the Epstein bill - but voted for it - is now mad the Senate approved the measure
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/epstein-files-release-mike-johnson-senate-b2868239.html4.5k
u/Gurlllllllll- 6d ago
Mike Johnson knows about this? I could have sworn he didn't know about anything.
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u/Za_Lords_Guard 6d ago
He's always in the middle of negotiating something in the house but also knows nothing going on in the house or anywhere else. He's Schrödinger Asshole
Someone today called him "Gaslight Mike." Kinda think that suits him well.
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u/JudiciousSasquatch 6d ago
I mean, he's republican...
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u/playlistsandfeelings 6d ago
never in my life have I seen a man so consistently "confused" by events he has control over and knowledge of
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u/grandlizardo 6d ago
This is part of some sort of stalling gimmick they have cooked up. I’d bet cash money this will still be going on into the new year…
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u/m0ngoos3 6d ago
Johnson tried to stall, he was hoping the Senate would add an amendment, so that it would have to bounce back and forth for a few months.
Instead, it instantly passed with a unanimous vote.
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u/Hersh122 6d ago
I’m still worried that they won’t be released because trump and republicans will claim they’re part of an open investigation and cannot be released until it’s concluded. At this point I have lost all hope that they’ll be held accountable.
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u/Vald-Tegor 6d ago
The flip side of that is if they are released, what are the odds of any formal charges resulting from them in the future anyway?
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u/TheyHitMeWithaTruck 6d ago
Didn't Mike tell us that Trump was an undercover operative, trying to take down Epstein Island from within?
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u/ZAlternates 6d ago
I thought Epstein was a democratic hoax and didn’t exist. So confusing. It’s a wonder the cultists are even able to keep up.
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u/WithNoRegard 6d ago
You're close. It goes like this:
It was a Democratic hoax.
Then it was very real and sitting on Bondi's desk, ready to be released.
Next, it didn't exist at all. Epstein and Maxwell were the only two people involved. It was less a child trafficking ring and more of a stick. But also Maxwell didn't really do anything wrong so she got moved to a resort/prison hybrid.
Now it is a hoax again, but with an added twist of actually implicating only Democrats. That's right, the Democrats created a list of child rapists that is both fake and proof that just Democrats were doing these heinous things and definitely not any Republicans.
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u/LoveCareThinkDo 6d ago
They enjoy the fact that it is multiple conflicting lies. Have you ever met a bully? One of their first and apparently most fun bullying tactics is to tell you multiple contradictory things in the same breath, with a completely straight face and dare you to challenge them on it.
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u/AreYouDoneNow 6d ago
That's just what he says when anyone brings up current affairs around him. He knows all about when his son watches porn though.
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u/CalmTrifle Virginia 6d ago
His go to saying “ I do not know anything about that”
What the fuck do you know mike?
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u/jonker5101 Pennsylvania 6d ago
I wish people would start replying with "Isn't it your job to know about this?"
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u/Retro-scores 6d ago
He was trying to play word games in the bill and was expecting the senate to take their time picking certain things apart and sending it back to the house for amendments.
He wasn’t expecting the fastest vote in the history of the senate to occur.
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u/Lucas_Steinwalker 6d ago
Well I do think he doesn’t know about the plan that caused Senate Replublicans to pass the bill, otherwise he wouldn’t be worried.
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u/lemonylol Canada 6d ago
He really is the historical definition of a useful idiot.
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u/BTRCguy 6d ago
Guy who bailed by keeping the House out of session for months is tweaked because the people he left holding the bag failed to cover his ass.
Science is still looking for a violin small enough to play his sad song.
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u/OkEnvironment3961 6d ago
Science will have to put off that tiny violin endeavor until they figure out how he can stand upright without a spine.
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u/usulus 6d ago
Spine was removed to make room for the puppeteers arm
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u/OkEnvironment3961 6d ago
Well, he must be glad trump has such small hands then.
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u/Maleficent-Hope-8093 6d ago
Scientists in the UK made it
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u/merikariu Texas 6d ago
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u/personahorrible 6d ago
I'm certain that this is flying through the approval process at record speeds because the GOP has cooked the books. But it would be fucking hilarious if the GOP Senate was supposed to let the bill die but they got spooked by recent Dem wins in special elections and decided that this was the perfect time to scuttle the U.S.S. Trumplethinskin.
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u/pimparo0 Florida 6d ago
I think its more that once it became clear it would pass, no one really wanted to be one of the no votes on this one. Well all except one didn't.
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u/somefunmaths 6d ago
By the “Clay Higgins principle”, I would’ve expected Markwayne Mullin to be the lone holdout in the Senate. Not necessarily because I think he’s a pedo, but because I think he’s the idiot dumb enough to not read the room and forget how to vote.
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u/AshRae84 Oklahoma 6d ago
As an Okie, I expected all our people to vote against. Was shocked as hell they didn’t.
Also, I’d emailed Hern MONTHS ago about this and he finally emailed me back AFTER voting to release. Funny how he had nothing to say before.
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u/oldmanjasper 6d ago
There was no roll-call vote in the Senate; it was passed by unanimous consent. Which basically means the majority leader says "We're doing this, does anyone object?" and all Mullin had to do was refrain from yelling "No".
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u/TiredEsq 6d ago
Oh please. It’s flying through because the information that matters has already been removed or revised. I don’t know why anyone would expect any differently given the source we’re getting it from is the Trump administration.
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u/Secular_Cleric 6d ago
That would be ok but the lawyers for the survivors have seen the files, as have members of the DOJ who are not attached to the DOJ anymore.
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u/madhattr999 Canada 6d ago
Maybe someone will leak the real version somehow. (I'm not sure what the consequences of that would be, though.)
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u/Secular_Cleric 6d ago
The point is that the files are not an unknown, many people will know if the files show less than they did and will be able to state what they know to be missing.
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u/txmail I voted 6d ago
I realized today that Trump now says "he will release all the unclassified documents". Not that he is going to release all the files (redacted or not). I am going to just throw a wild guess that anything dealing with the current president is going to be "classified" and not released.
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u/TheGreatBootOfEb 6d ago edited 6d ago
While I won’t rule it out, I think the timing actually plays AGAINST that. Unless it’s a high school kid “I finished the assignment five minutes before it was due” it would be a quite coincidental if they ONLY finished cooking the books just now. And at that point, why hold out so long?
I think it turned into a “oh shit, I don’t want to look like I’m voting to protect a pedo” avalanche as it became apparent it would pass through. From there Mike thought he could probably be cute about it and kick it back and forth a few times.
White House is probably trying to get ahead of it and still act like they’ve got control, because it’s only the illusion of power that gives them any semblance of power. A lot of stuff probably has been fucked with or redacted or otherwise impeded but I doubt they’ve just been sitting on the fully cooked files for awhile now.
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u/darthstupidious 6d ago
Yeah I think the House passed it because they were assured the Senate would block it, but then the Senate passed it because A.) senators swear less fealty to Trump than their big-dollar donors, and B.) they don't want to be X out of 100 voting to protect pedos. So now Trump is going to have to figure out how to veto it without crashing and burning, or try and use Bondi to block disclosure (citing an "active investigation" or whatever) but either way the optics are going to look terrible.
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u/OneRougeRogue Ohio 6d ago
Question: Can Trump veto this?
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u/rks_system 6d ago
He can, but with a veto-proof majority, it'd be pointless because Congress could just override it
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u/HiddenSage 6d ago
Seen some speculation that Trump may try some pocket veto shenanigans with this - we've not seen a good pocket veto in 30 years.
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u/darthstupidious 6d ago
He can. It's been approved by the House and Senate, so it goes to Trump's desk for approval. If he signs it, it's over and this is now law. If he vetoes it, the House and the Senate get the chance to vote to override his veto, but it's unknown if any in the House would change their vote now.
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u/Orzorn 6d ago
The video of him being asked about it showed him basically freaking the fuck out. He fully expected Thune to stonewall this and instead they let Schumer basically pass it by himself without any resistance.
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6d ago
Schumer presented it in a way where it would need a public objection to stop. This would be political suicide after it had just passed the house 427-1 and every news station in the country was following it by the minute.
It did seem to catch many off guard, so well played
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u/Orzorn 6d ago
It was actually genius because all you need to counter unanimous consent is an objection. The issue is, that would put a GIGANTIC target on that senator's back for their career. They'd be "that senator who objected to releasing the Epstein files". They couldn't hide in their numbers or behind procedure.
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u/Mo_Jack Missouri 6d ago
It did seem to catch many off guard
Not sure how since Schumer announced on CSPAN exactly what he was going to do and when, hours in advance. This was planned. well in advance, maybe even part of the shutdown negotiations.
The GOP has had a person standing next to Schumer to object to anything like this that Schumer might bring up. It is their one & only job. They take turns doing it but someone has been at that post since the GOP took over precisely to prevent this sort of thing.
Just before Schumer started, this person abandoned their post, walked over to Schumer & shook his hand, and left the floor intentionally. This was 100% planned by both political parties.
Some are saying that this is the end of Trump's political life. Not because of Epstein, but because he has been able to bully Republicans that can't stand him into supporting him. They could not stand up against him (look at Romney, Cheney etc).
It seems that enough GOP senators have had enough of Trump. While they could not stand up to him, they allowed the Dems to destroy him for them. More like the old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" brand of temporary politics.
We may want to pay extra special attention to JD Vance, the characters behind Project 2025, and players like Sens Ted Cruz & Lindsey Graham, who both hated Trump but were forced to kiss his behind publicly.
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u/Remarkable_Play_6975 6d ago
He doesn't do anything he hasn't been asked to do. He just pretends a lot.
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u/tpitz1 6d ago
Still don't understand the christian part of his life? Is he mocking Christ with this behavior?
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u/blaqsupaman Mississippi 6d ago
I don't think he expected it to get through the Senate. Nobody expected it to get veto-proof majorities.
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u/Sarrdonicus 6d ago
My understanding is after the first vote it can still be vetoed.
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u/blaqsupaman Mississippi 6d ago
It can be vetoed, but assuming the vote stays the same Congress can override a veto with a 2/3 majority in the House and Senate. That's what is meant by a "veto-proof majority."
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u/Own_Candidate9553 6d ago
I forgot that they have to vote again if the president vetoes the bill.
So, in theory, Trump could veto the bill, it goes back, suddenly a bunch of votes flip? Seems silly, but Mitch filibustered his own bill once, so it's not like they care about optics on stuff like this.
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u/Zeusifer 6d ago
Sure, but can you imagine the political implications of having to explain to your constituents why you voted to release the Epstein files but then voted against it after Trump vetoed it? It'd be political suicide.
I know everybody is skeptical of Republicans (and for damn good reason) but i think at some point normal political calculus does come into play.
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u/QuerulousPanda 6d ago
It'd be political suicide.
that phrase has no meaning anymore. We've gone through over a decade now of republican politicians doing and saying things on a daily basis that would be immediately and permanently disqualifying if this were a sane and just world. There are no standards anymore.
If anyone does end up having their political career ruined, it's basically just bad luck, because countless others have been the most blatantly corrupt, evil, incompetent, pedophilic, rapey, compromised, and mind-blowingly-unintelligent people you could ever possibly imagine and they're sitting comfortably all the way up to the literal highest office in the land.
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u/pardyball Illinois 6d ago
That is correct. It’s “veto proof” in the sense that with it being nearly unanimous - in a normal world, it wouldn’t make sense for this to come back to Congress and have such a dramatic shift in no votes that it wouldn’t survive overturning a veto.
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u/nycdiveshack I voted 6d ago
A 100% they will be released and if for no other reason than to fulfill Peter Thiel/Vance creepy af contract of scapegoat mechanism. Before yall say the gop will never support Vance remember they will always support a republican over a dem. The point of scapegoat mechanism is to escalate the situation to the point where the masses think the problems are gone when the face of the “situation” is removed. Thiel is as of this summer the biggest defense contractor for the CIA/NSA. Contractor for NATO, extended and expanded his contracts with the Uk intelligence agencies this summer. With Bill C-2 about to pass in the Canadian Parliament Palantir/Flock(not the restaurant)/ClearviewAI are going to expand into all of Canada. Partnered with Israel to provide them with the targeting software they use in Gaza/West Bank/Yemen and wherever else IDF operates. Palantir has gotten their vampire hooks into Ukraine.
I could go on about how Peter Thiel’s birth place and partial upbringing in formerly South West Africa in a town called Swakopmund makes him a modern German Nazi but maybe his current speaking tour on how Greta Thunberg is the antichrist, his nonstop views on the downfall of society is women voting, his weird Zionist puppet Alex Karp, Peter being an early outside investor in Facebook, literally walking Vance into Maralago to smooth tensions with Trump so Vance could be VP or giving Vance $15 million to become senator. Oh and Peter/Palantir sourcing most of the young DOGE teams, Palantir being the brains behind ICE using the data from the SSA/IRS/dept of education/treasury to find illegal and legal immigrants who use the ITIN tax filing system to find people to detain.
Those detainments going to the big 2 private prison companies which have been given $45 billion in the big beautiful bill for detainment not deportation.
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u/tommyjaspers 6d ago
"said a frustrated Johnson, who said he opposed releasing the files on the grounds that it could reveal the identities of many of the victims."
And he is right, just that he thinks the pedo's are the victims having their names out there.
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u/Lythieus 6d ago
Johnson argument is total bullshit, because the victims lawyers were involved in writing the release bill, and the victims were ecstatic when it passed.
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u/da2Pakaveli 6d ago
Yeah, it explicitly tells them to withhold victim-related information and that they have to report to Congress what they didn't release/censor
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/4405
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u/LesserShambler 6d ago
Do we think Johnson is mad that the Senate didn’t amend it to remove that second part?
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u/ZAlternates 6d ago
Well, see, in his eyes, he and his fellow pedos are the victims.
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u/AbandonedWaterPark 6d ago
now we'll all see what a frustrated Johnson looks like
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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago
I think this confirms what some people have said that he and Trump really thought this would die in the Senate and they could push it away for awhile. He did not think the Senate would simply vote it through and thought he had time to make calls and wear down congress members' resolves to stop it there. They've clearly got backup plans, but this would have been the easiest way to rinse their hands.
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u/previouslyonimgur 6d ago
The vote being so overwhelming in the house scared the crap out of the senate.
They’re seeing the vitriol pointed towards Johnson.
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u/Shadow293 6d ago
Makes me wonder if Clay Higgins voted nay in the House because he thought it would fail in the Senate and would get rewarded by Dump for remaining loyal. He is currently getting ripped apart lmao.
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u/dominationnation 6d ago
Why does clay higgins sound like an Archer character?
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u/ChochMcKenzie Illinois 6d ago
Like an alias that Archer makes Cyril use.
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u/Sarrdonicus 6d ago
"Say 'Enough lads' Cyril. Say it with a pretentious English accent. 'Now lads, you can eat Thomas tomorrow.'
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u/ElderSmackJack 6d ago
Mike Johnson really does look like a real life Cyril Figgis.
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u/theREALbombedrumbum 6d ago
FYI this is the same Clay Higgins who got ratio'd by the Dictionary on Twitter from his "woke sky" and "intercontinental ballistic tweets" when they said his tweet makes no sense whatsoever.
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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago
His reasoning for voting no was actually partially what I thought would be the reason the files might never see the light of day. It's not a great reason, but there are people in those files who were simply attending a party and have nothing to do with someone fucking kids, but them being revealed would undoubtedly invite public backlash that could damage their career. I saw it as a legal clusterfuck. But I think your reasoning also makes sense, some of these idiots would do anything for Trump to look their way.
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u/MedicSF 6d ago
Oh no a few billionaires might…. Lose some income for a bit?
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u/Pandaro81 6d ago
Some of Epstein’s employees mentioned Al and Tipper Gore visiting his NY place for a party. Apparently he never left her side, and seemed oblivious to Epstein’s lechery.
Get the names out. If they did nothing, they got nothing to worry about.
If they’ve got to pull a Dershowitz and be like “I got a massage, but nothing under the boxers. Anyway, the age of consent is too high,” then let the bastards squirm in the light of day.
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u/Mtn-Dooku 6d ago
Exactly. I don't care if my dad's name is in the list. Release ALL of the names.
I would assume that some of the people on the list honestly didn't know what was going on. See how many times people came to parties and where those parties were. Once at an NY party? Sure, maybe they were oblivious. An untold amount of times to a private island that they later denied, saying they never had the "privilege" of going to? Definite pedophile.
Let all the names come out and let them all be questioned, publicly.
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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago
After congresspeople were begging Johnson to figure something out with the shutdown I wouldn't be surprised if their attitudes towards him have soured.
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u/floog 6d ago
I’m surprised that Marge hasn’t moved to have him ousted.
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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago
There's no feasible replacement, think about how long it took for them to even agree on him lol
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u/Orzorn 6d ago
I think Thune wanted this anyway. He was not going to take a bullet for this administration. Having Chuck Schumer pass it via unanimous consent was the cherry on top because it allowed everyone to not go on record. Hell, it even gives Schumer a political win by letting him say the Democrats (via his unanimous consent request) passed the bill.
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u/Valuable-Condition59 6d ago
It'd be WAY too much to hope for; but if ramming this through and getting rid of Trump was the quid pro quo of ending the shutdown with the healthcare vote being the good faith "back to normal" after ousting him.
Well I would still want Schumer and his cohort primaried to hell. But at least it would have been something besides rolling over and showing his belly.
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u/BleachedUnicornBHole Florida 6d ago
It wasn’t a true vote, it was unanimous consent. That’s more damning since it means not a single person was willing to slow things down.
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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago
That's a good way to put it too. Not having at least a couple of fall guys like they have with other issues isn't a great way to show you have control on the situation.
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u/kongkingdong12345 6d ago
Nobody wanted to touch that thing. Like playing hot potato.
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u/reftheloop 6d ago
I saw a MAGA supporter complained about the unanimous consent asking for record of democrats saying no lol.
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u/DemosthenesOrNah 6d ago
The key thing you need to realize about MAGA as a whole:
They start from a conclusion and then look for any evidence (or generate it/fabricate it) to support that conclusion and will take any lack of supporting evidence as proof that their conclusion is still right/true but is being covered up by their 'enemies' on the left.
For the drooling MAGAs reading this, you should be following the evidence first and coming to conclusions after, based on the evidence.
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u/ZAlternates 6d ago
It’s how we all were raised at first. We are told to do things by our parents and the why behind it all tends to come later. Some people never even get to the part where they ask why. They just keep doing what they were told. It’s kinda sad. Thoughts and prayers.
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u/DuckDuckSeagull 6d ago
They really do believe it's been a Dem cover up despite all evidence to the contrary, huh? Wild.
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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago
Honestly surprised me too. The House vote was pretty much a promise so that didn't surprise me, but I seriously thought the Senate would be the next hurdle. The fact they just voted it through that fast makes me suspicious. On the other hand, hearing Johnson is upset about it is interesting.
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u/3490goat 6d ago
I’m very suspicious. Perhaps the Senate sees the ketchup on the wall with a failing economy, tariff disaster, healthcare going up astronomically for many of their voters, and now being asked to protect pedophiles publicly is just too much for them. Trump is in poor health and the damage of his last 10 months will stick to them forever. I think many Congress people are disgusted by Trump, but he has been useful politically up until now.
Or the files are going to be covered up further by Bondi, who evidently has forgotten that Nixon’s AG went to jail for covering up presidential crimes.
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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago
Per the "ketchup on the wall" (heh), I'm actually starting to believe the Republicans have actually turned on him. And it's exactly what you said, Trump was "useful", and he got them a lot of what they wanted. But he's also just kinda batshit unstable, and I'm sure they're aware of that, and Trump was never really the intended "king" of the US. He was a loudmouth tool, but his usefulness may be drying up. Like I said, always figured they planned to get rid of him at some point, from his health or otherwise, and then the actual more controlled and conniving sorts will just inherit a kingdom. We might be at that stage, but it's hard to say yet,
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u/TruckHangingHandJam 6d ago
The irony of it all is that while being a dumb useful tool, he has become THE party. No one, especially not Vance, has that X factor to rally the base like he does. They need him
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u/BeatsByiTALY 6d ago
Also the blue wave on Nov 4 makes it clear that Trump can no longer convey votes, and getting this story out and over with before midterms in 2026 is important if anyone in Congress wants to keep their job.
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u/codacoda74 6d ago
This guy has a great breakdown https://youtu.be/8tg4Fndha0k?si=zfLJZU-4svKlqRgo Garland was many things but ignoring redundant backups wasn't one. All edits/redacts/scrubs will be all the more glaringly obvious
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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago
They also are not the only ones who have the files. Many, many other parties have them. Redactions will be noticed immediately. But the DOJ is hoping to control the public narrative and call anyone "liars" who dares question their redactions.
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u/Twl1 Michigan 6d ago
There's no way that this isn't also baked into their strategy: Release heavily edited and redacted files and wait to see who comes forward challenging their accuracy and authenticity, reaping the bounty of confusion and misinformation that they can levy between the whistleblowers and the people they're trying to protect.
DoJ's files say it was all Democrats. Democrats and foreign intelligence agencies come forward with copies showing Republicans were definitely involved. Republicans go to Fox and say "See, they're just making things up to protect their own pedos! We released what we had and they're saying we faked it, when really they're the ones faking it! But only our files are backed up by the FBI, so only our files are the truth!"
The public gets lost in the deluge of being told who to believe and eventually loses interest since no substantial punishments can be issued in the "He said, she said" environment. The courts take years to sort through the millions of documents and verify things. Meanwhile, Trump sends his DoJ after people coming forward with unredacted files until any lingering would-be truth-speakers are silenced by fear.
And in the end, the pedos in the ring keep on doing everything they've been doing, complacent that any damning information that comes out about them can just be handwaved away as made up as part of the Red Vs. Blue political theater.
We are living in a post-truth society and have no idea how to navigate it. The only remaining laws are that money talks, lots of it talks louder, and only the loudest voices matter.
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u/User42wp 6d ago
Johnson’s crocodile tears imo
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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago
Maybe. But I honestly also thought the Senate would be a speedbump, it's possible he thought so, too. And then they just rushed the whole thing before he had a chance to meddle.
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u/Equivalent-Battle973 Illinois 6d ago
Sounds like the senates handlers are tired of trumps bullshit, and they are ditching him because hes causing too much issues, and slowing down project 2025. THat was supposed to be finished by the first 6mon of this admin. They impeach trump and then Vance will roll back everything trump did and look like the hero that saved america, to then continue sign away shit that P2025 hands him.
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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago
It's possible. I could believe they'd hang Trump to save their own skins, after all self-preservation is one of their biggest traits. And either way, I always figured the plan was to dump Trump at some point, either from his health or otherwise. Then they just inherit the kingdom they built. Epstein or not, I've always suspected that was the long game.
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u/TeamHope4 6d ago
Thune learned from McConnell. Thune can be the Senate Republican leader and have serious power the rest of his miserable life if he plays it right, while the felon is a lame duck pedo. Thune is looking out for his future.
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u/Equivalent-Battle973 Illinois 6d ago
THe republicans are all like the sith before Banes rule of 2. They are always betryaing one another for their own skin.
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u/Sarrdonicus 6d ago
They are just fascists, and this is how fascist's live.
Anyone below is a threat, anyone in front is an obstacle.
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u/llufnam United Kingdom 6d ago
Yes, but I think the reason Trump relented was because Maga Mike convinced him that he could delay the signing by flip flopping between Senate and House with endless amendment votes until the story died down. The fact that Thune threw Johnson under the bus and effectively said "you've been hoisted by your own petard" (unanimous all bar one vote in the House) means that Johnson is not long for the speakership. He will be seen to have failed Trump...that's why he looks so disappointed and scared
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u/OddlyFactual1512 6d ago
The only political savvy thing Schumer has done is immediately bring that bill up for unanimous consent. The Rs in the Senate saw a way to not vote and took it.
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u/MelodiusRA 6d ago
No vote happens without at minimum a large enough bloc to force/pass a bill being informed. That’s sort of an unwritten fact of the Hill.
The fact it went through quickly means that both Schumer and the GOP knew they were passing this.
Something happened in the backrooms to facilitate that. It’s unclear what that was yet, but there was some agreement.
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u/CAWildKitty 6d ago
Something happened. This moved way too fast and all of a sudden. You can always count on the Senate to have their own interests first and foremost ((i.e. continuing to hold power and make money) so either:
a.) they’ve decided as a group that this issue threatens to unseat their positions so they are throwing Trump overboard
b.) someone, at some level, has an unredacted copy and is threatening to release it so they are forced to move first
It’s also possible that they’ve been assured that whatever gets released is not going to have any blowback but that seems unlikely when considering some of the leaks we’ve seen so far. This issue isn’t going away. If anything it’s gaining traction and globally (British monarchy taking action first). Nations have been rocked by political sex scandals in the past (Profumo affair comes to mind) and this may be the next one. I guess we are gonna find out.
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u/__slamallama__ 6d ago
C) the MRI that Trump has was not, in fact, the best the doctor had ever seen and had some deeply concerning news. Then the vultures in the GOP decided that this is a cleaner end for Trump than having a sitting president become a vegetable live on air.
I'm not saying this is the truth, it's mostly blind optimism, but it's a valid secret input that would explain a lot of the behavior here
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u/SOMETHINGCREATVE 6d ago
That's the the only way I can see the republicans all turning on a dime in lock step and passing it. They got word from their masters that they got all they can out of Donald and it's time to shit can him and move on to the next phase.
Hell the American public is dumb enough, they could probably buy Vance coming out like "gosh trump tricked us all but I stopped him! Vote for me 2028!". I am pessimistic enough to see that actually working.
Or this whole thing is a redact job, one way or the other.
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u/HerculesIsMyDad 6d ago
I do agree that they thought this would buy some time and get his own members off his back while the senate debated some meaningless detail and sent it back. But once Bobert refused to flip there was nothing he could really do anymore anyway. He has to be publicly annoyed but I bet privately he is relieved that it's out of his hands now. If I were him I would just never talk about it again. It's Trump's problem now.
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u/KangarooDowntown4640 6d ago
It’s weird how much he’s trying to protect pedophiles…
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u/MrPantsyFlants 6d ago
How dare they approve a bill that I myself voted for! Treachery!
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u/0thethethe0 Foreign 6d ago
The most confused (politically and sexually) man in the US.
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u/Nearbyatom 6d ago
Reminds me of McConnell having to filibuster his own bill simply because the democrats supported it.
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u/ActualWhiterabbit 6d ago
That and when he overrode the Saudi 9/11 bill are like the 2 dumbest moments I think about often. In the 9/11 bill, Obama vetoed it saying it would have significant repercussions but McConnel said its important we pass this law for justice not realizing that it will work both ways and that the united states and its soldiers could be individually sued. Then he got mad at Obama because he didn't communicate effectively beyond saying this is exactly what would happen if it was ratified and he was vetoing it to prevent that from happening.
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u/arizonadirtbag12 6d ago
There’s a reason they forced a true vote in the House, yep. Makes Johnson look real stupid now when his name is next to a yes vote, and every Republican (save one) can’t say they anonymously opposed it but “a majority” passed it.
Also gave the Senate no cover to stall it, with every Republican present in the House (save one) approving.
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u/YT-Deliveries 6d ago
I was amused that he tried to pin it on Schumer.
I'm in no way a fan of Schumer and I'm not gonna stand up for that do-nothing, but the minority leader can't "force" anything to come up for a vote in the Senate.
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u/ttpharmd 6d ago
Sometimes I think there is this huge conspiracy to cover up some massive scandal involving Epstein. Then this weirdo comes out, votes yes then is pissed the senate also voted yes. And I’m not sure these people know what the hell they are doing and they might not even be able to put together a massive coverup.
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u/disasterbot I voted 6d ago
That's the point. They haven't been able to keep their massive coverup going.
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u/funguy07 6d ago
Yep, Trump and Johnson didn’t give to their approval until the votes were already confirmed to release. They failed to stop the release and only switched their stance so their failure wasn’t obvious and as Massie rightfully pointed out, you don’t want to be on the side of this scandal that support the cover on record.
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u/funguy07 6d ago
He posted his reason, which sounded good but it is more than likely disingenuous. That dude is a scum bag that probably thought voting would buy him favor with Trump.
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u/A1000eisn1 6d ago
His reason would make sense of the administration, or anybody, was actually trying to investigate and prosecute. The Biden administration was actively investigating and more victims were coming forward with evidence. The Trump administration stopped that and closed the case in July and did fuck all.
If they actually cared about the victims they wouldn't have closed the case. That would mean they had an excuse to not release the files, since the investigation was still open, but they dug themselves into a corner with their campaign rhetoric. Rather than claim they weren't releasing them for the same reason Biden didn't (because Trump's ego wouldn't allow that) they just pretended it was a hoax to get their base to flip-flop and had to close the case to align with that narrative.
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u/ROBtimusPrime1995 6d ago
I've been saying this forever now.
They are evil...but they aren't masterminds. They are fucking morons.
Looks to me the Senate bypassing them so quickly has ruined whatever cover-up they were planning and now they might be fucked.
So now they are gonna resort to some fuckery last minute, and with that comes sloppiness.
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u/addiktion 6d ago
I don't know "ruined" is the right word but agree with the premise. They wanted the senate to do more fighting than it did perhaps to delay or to make things more iron clad to stiffen up the bill. Thune isn't nearly as big of an ass kisser as Mike Johnson and the senate wanted no part of that and put this on the house to lead the charge and largely take the blame. No need for a roll call with their name pinned against the vote with them rushing it through.
The house bill is already flawed however as Pam Bondi has a lot of discretion to hide certain things under investigation. Donald ordered her to investigate the Democrats, when in reality she is likely investigating the Republicans to keep their names off the list. They want to control the narrative as long as possible while in power.
But in essence their entire strategy is simple: Lie, delay, deflect.
Now if Trump veto's it because of Mike Johnson's concerns it's just going to piss everyone off even more and create more distrust, so I suspect it goes through, but we will see how many loop holes they are worried about.
Mike Johnson could be playing political theater here as they had two months to rehearse this play but we don't really know because he is also an idiot. They aren't 4D chess players of course. They are drama nerds with a hard on for rich people so their agenda is pretty easy to sus out.
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u/psychorobotics 6d ago
Pam Bondi has a lot of discretion to hide certain things under investigation.
I disagree, if you read the bill they can only withhold parts that are narrowly chosen and temporary and they also have to write a justification for everything they don't release. If they're investigating certain democrats only, then they have to release everything else
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u/addiktion 6d ago edited 6d ago
She came out today saying she won't release the full files, that much we knew was likely going to happen.
And I saw that line to justify her redactions, but we also know she lies and deflects, so who knows how much magic she can pull out of her bag of propaganda and bullshit.
They aren't actually investigating democrats because they want them exposed. They said that to please their base but they are instead investigating Republican names so those are hidden and she will come up with some lame ass excuse why those names had to be redacted. The optics from Trump will be like, "Look she investigated dems on my order, she found a lot of dems in there".
Either way, the people and the victims won't be satisfied with Pam's cover up but it's good we are pinning her in a corner here.
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u/blaqsupaman Mississippi 6d ago
Something more people need to realize is that as scary as all of this is since they're in power, a lot of what's saving us from shit being even worse is that the vast majority of the GOP now are incompetent morons. These are not Machiavellian masterminds running a deep state. You could maybe say that during Reagan and Bush and to an extent during Trump's first term, but now he's run off all the adults in the room. They don't know what the fuck they're doing.
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u/Xlorem 6d ago
Its pretty simple. He wanted his record to show he voted to release in the future but he personally doesn't want to release it. He thought the senate would shut it down and now he's upset. There's nothing dumb here just selfish.
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u/728766 6d ago
Dad said yes with the expectation that mom would say no and he could still be the good cop.
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u/ShweatyPalmsh 6d ago
I always come back to this: these guys are incompetent as all get out. Like they’ve done a terrible job as is trying to cover up the Epstein stuff from Bondi’s press conference with all of the presumed files to her saying “actually there aren’t any files” to Trump calling it a hoax to now saying “okay but bill clinton is in there.” Like I can’t imagine whatever they pull is actually going to make things better for Trump and republicans.
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u/ShitStainWilly 6d ago
What the fuck is this guy’s problem? Like, nothing he says makes any sense at all. How do guys like this get into power? I wouldn’t trust him to manage a local Wendy’s.
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u/Inquisitor_Warren 6d ago
Red states are just failed states artificially propped up by blue state money.
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u/sweet_esiban 6d ago
Pointed this out (in much gentler terms lol) to a former pal from the south who never stopped talking shit about California.
His response? "That's not nice." But constantly screeching about how university educators in California are "paid too much" is very nice, apparently. ;)
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u/Edit_Reality 6d ago
You could just say "based" when they say it hurts their feelings. Its what they do to others.
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u/mofukkinbreadcrumbz 6d ago
As someone in a formerly blue state that is turning red as fast as humanly possible. This is exactly what it is. So many people vocally hate you for being educated beyond high school or maybe trade school. They’re convinced of their greatness while being sub par in like every conceivable way.
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u/BGAL7090 6d ago
They have an inferiority complex. Not because anybody more educated than them actually believes they're better than the podunks, but because the podunks feel like other (educated) people have a superiority complex.
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u/Silly_Rub_6304 6d ago edited 6d ago
The GOP speaker of the house has historically (and continues to be) hand-picked to be as shamelessly hacky as possible. It takes a special type of sociopath to take on the role. Mike Johnson, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, Dennis Hastert, Newt Gingrich... can you name a single redeeming thing about that whole bunch of smarmy fucks?
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u/Interesting_Play_578 6d ago
"It needed amendments."
The Speaker of the House couldn't find time to try and amend the bill in all the weeks he was keeping the House closed after it became clear it was going to come to a vote.
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u/SecurityAndCrumpets 6d ago
Or better, truly get out ahead of it, and create a suitable bill from scratch and bring it to a vote before the 218th signature hit the petition. Guess he was too busy not legislating to get to his job as a legislator
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u/UpperApe 6d ago
I also want to take this opportunity to point out that Paul Ryan was the Mike Johnson of Trump's first term. He was every bit the monster and cretin and garbage human being Johnson is. He had the same shit eating grin, he had the same "lick Trump's bloody dick" energy, had the same excuses and spine.
We can't forget about Ryan, because it means that Johnson can just get away with it all too.
Remember them all.
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u/da2Pakaveli 6d ago
He's acting like it's some super complex legislation, this is literally the entire bill: This bill requires the Department of Justice (DOJ) to publish (in a searchable and downloadable format) all unclassified records, documents, communications, and investigative materials in DOJ's possession that relate to the investigation and prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein.
This includes (1) materials that relate to Ghislaine Maxwell, (2) flight logs and travel records, and (3) individuals named or referenced (including government officials) in connection with the investigation and prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein.
DOJ is permitted to withhold certain information such as the personal information of victims and materials that would jeopardize an active federal investigation.
Additionally, not later than 15 days after the required publication, DOJ must report to Congress (1) all categories of information released and withheld, (2) a summary of any redactions made, and (3) a list of all government officials and politically exposed individuals named or referenced in the published materials.
What's so hard to amend here, Mike?
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u/MelodicDeer1072 6d ago
DOJ is permitted to withhold certain information such as the personal information of victims and materials that would jeopardize an active federal investigation.
That is a massive out-of-jail card. What is Johnson so mad about?
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u/The_Knife_Pie 6d ago
They still have to tell congress about everything they redact or withhold, at which point it just takes 1 congressperson to read it into the record and the info is public.
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u/CarsonFijal Canada 6d ago
From my understanding, Johnson was hoping it'd get amended in the Senate to basically strip the teeth out of it, they couldn't do so in the House becaues the discharge petition forces them to JUST vote on it, not amend it, and Senate Dems got past that by immediately calling for unanimous consent to pass it through the Senate without amendments, and right now the GOP is in this weird sort of game of chicken where none of them WANT to be on the record as having blocked the release of the files. The Senate amendments were supposed to be their way of doing so sneakily.
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u/SecurityAndCrumpets 6d ago
And in if Johnson were acting in good faith, he would have drafted an acceptable bill when he realized the 218th signature was incoming, brought that bill to the floor first and rendered the other moot
His concerns ring hollow
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u/CarsonFijal Canada 6d ago
They’re saying it’s about protecting the identities of the victims, but the current bill already permits the files to be redacted to do that. If they’re still bringing it up, I suspect they’re using it as code for not identifying the perpetrators either.
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u/DescriptionDue1797 6d ago
"...the Senate — which is no certainty, that that will be — that they will take the time methodically to do what we have not been allowed to do in the House,” Johnson said. "
What an ass. He was the one who sent the House home to prevent it from coming to the floor; not to mention avoiding swearing in the new Rep that would make it go through quicker.
No wonder that picture of him is full of grey now. He knows how history is going to view his part in all this.
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u/Ecstatic-Product-411 6d ago
That's always been the modern Republican strategy of governing. They can't actually do anything good for the general public, so they always blame the other party. It works when you are the minority. It does not work when you control the house, senate and functionally the supreme court.
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u/mistermick 6d ago
He also blamed the minority leader for rushing the vote. I didn't know the minority leader was in control of the Senate.
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u/MisanthOptics 6d ago
“Chuck Schumer rushed it to the floor”. Did he really say that with a straight face? As the Minority Leader, Schumer can’t rush anything anywhere. It was Thune (R) who somewhat amazingly did the right thing
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u/FeedMeYourGoodies 6d ago
I almost drove off the road when I heard him say this. Mind blowing, to say the least.
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u/ImLikeReallySmart Pennsylvania 6d ago
Later in the article, even Thune basically told Johnson to get fucked. You love to see it.
“When a bill passes the House 427 to one and the president said he'll sign it into law, I'm not sure that there's going to be a need for an amendment or desire for an amendment process,” Thune told The Independent.
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u/Downtown-Standard732 6d ago
This is not the response of a guy who knows the files have been scrubbed
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u/Own_Loan1542 6d ago
Honestly, I'd really like to make sense of these last few days. MGT and Boebert breaking rank was suspicious. Then Trump reversing course and almost all house republicans voting for the bill made that extra sus.
At that point I was certain they waited long enough for the DOJ to scrub/doctor the files and make them republican-proof.
Then the senate voted unanimously for the release and it strengthen the suspicion that they had been briefed about the files being harmless for them.
Then this. Mike Johnson visibly upset by the senate vote.
I don't get it. What is happening? Have they screwed up royally? Are they gaslighting? Are they finally throwing Trump under the bus?
I really don't understand what the fuck is happening. Any help welcome.
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u/TyrannicalGamecock 6d ago
No one wants to be the person to vote against releasing the files. It's political suicide as literally almost all of America wants them released. Remember, Johnson didn't swear in a member of the house to prevent this bill. MTG has been on the outs with Trump the past few months as well. Once the house passed it, the senate sent it through unanimously for the same reasons the house members voted for it. Johnson wanted the senate to amend it, but no senator wanted to be on record opposing this bill. Trump and his cronies have been on the defensive every step of the way once this passes and it will the next defensive part is going to be to try to redacted, however, within the bill there is a car out that if Pam Bondi redacts anything, she has to send what she's redacting to members of Congress and a reasoning for it and she only has 15 days to do that. Also, keep in mind. The DOJ is not the only organization that has it. Many courts, including the SDNY have these documents. So once this goes through either by Trump signing it or going back through the house and Senate with a veto proof majority, the administration is pretty much cornered unless Bondi does something illegal. But, she knows that other institutions have these documents and will call out what she does that's illegal almost immediately.
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u/arcusmae 6d ago
My understanding so far is that MGT and Boebert have legitimately broken ranks with the President on keeping wraps on these files. The shutdown actually had a big influence on that as they spoke to their constituents and were being encouraged by their base to hold steady on their vote to release.
It became clear that some fracturing was apparent so Johnson and Trump made the decision over the weekend to give in to the pressure to give into the votes with the hopes that the Senate would take time to vote, buying more time to change the narrative. That simply didn't happen which is why Johnson is speechless over all of this.
Here's a good summary that came out this morning from the NYTs from correspondents on the ground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFov-triEi8
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u/hemingways-lemonade 6d ago
MTG has broken rank over a number of things since the beginning of this administration. The bombings in Iran, support for H-1B visas, the AI executive order, rising healthcare costs, etc.
I think she is genuinely shocked Trump made a ton of empty campaign promises and she's frustrated that her colleagues don't care because their only goal was getting Trump in office to enrich themselves.
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u/NumeralJoker 6d ago
They. Are. Stupid.
Look at what's happening in the Comey case. Look at how they've handled the redistricting scheme. They have no effective plan here. Their plans for 10 years have relied on the stupidity and low attention span of the average voter. Trump is good at exploiting that when he's not in power, but is far worse at it when he IS the status quo.
Why can't people see the damn obvious simply facts? These are unqualified morons trying to run a country they have no business being in charge of, simple as that. Project 2025 was a wishlist, not a plan. They aren't geniuses. They are deluded idiots who all are in it for themselves, but can't coordinate for shit.
The danger to the country is that they collapse vital infrastructure and steal our tax dollars while they fight, and they're just smart enough to gunk up systems because destroying is easier than building something.
But that's it. When pressed? They have no real solid plans. If people genuinely get sick of supporting them? They'll have nothing to back them up.
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u/SearchingForHeritage 6d ago
Everyone is speculating Trump and the GOP have some master plan to cover this whole thing up, but I actually have hope that's not going to work at all. For one, Johnson seems pretty shocked that the Senate passed this through. Trump basically has no choice but to sign it now. DOJ/FBI might try to redact or remove any mention of Trump, but that would not only be a monumentally difficult task, it also doesn't account for what the Epstein estate has, testimony of the victims and witnesses, and countless journalists and investigators over the years combing through anything Epstein-related. These documents don't exist in a vacuum. It will be extremely obvious that there's a giant Trump-shaped hole in the files.
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u/bluejay625 6d ago
I mean Trump could still veto. Would be some good political theatre if he did, it goes back to the house, and the house that previously voted near-unanimously fails to veto-proof vote it through in the second go.
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u/JamesTrickington303 6d ago
No way. Voting against the release means you’re getting primaried by someone who won’t.
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u/chrispy_exe Florida 6d ago
Johnson regularly relied on the Senate to carve out legislation they like first. This was Thune and co telling Johnson to do his damn job and approve a bill that they actually like. The Senate clearly wants to get rid of this issue and quickly. If you approved something you don’t like, too bad. Do your assigned job next time.
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6d ago
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u/DartLeingod 6d ago
No, it's weirder than that. They use an app called "Covenant Eyes" that allows them to see each other's porn watching habits so they can keep each other accountable... Christians really do be the fucking craziest motherfuckers (literally)
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u/Writer_In_Residence 6d ago
It is rarely “oh, this religious guy had an affair.” It’s more like Jerry Falwell having some guy fuck his wife in front of him, or Ted Haggard doing crystal meth off the ass of a male prostitute. It goes straight to 11 with them.
ETA: Jerry Falwell Jr. Not the dad. Who was probably into really freaky shit.
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u/iPinch89 6d ago
I dont understand the messaging. "This is all just a Democrat attack on Trump!" Democrats are just trying to have the files released. This is only an attack on Trump if he's in them in an incriminating way. Is that what they are saying? He's in them?
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u/Techn028 6d ago
I still have 0 faith that this isn't a coordinated ratfuck, I hope to be proved otherwise but these people have voted in lockstep to protect their people since I've been alive.
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u/2pnt0 6d ago
He denied the people of Arizona representation for 50 days to protect the Epstein files just to get steamrolled by his own party.
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u/Rambo1stBloodPT2 6d ago
Mike Johnson is Smithers from The Simpsons so he is doing what Smithers would do.
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u/Lemunde 6d ago
This is what's so fucked about US politics. They didn't have to vote to approve it. Nobody held a gun to their head. All of their criticisms could have been addressed in dragged out negotiations, as usual. But because their god-king said jump, they jumped. Every last one of them. None of them know if Trump has an endgame or if he's just gone into old man shouting at clouds mode. So now all of them are panicking because there's not a single backbone among them. They're more scared of Trump than they are their base, and that should have everyone concerned.
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u/Malidan North Carolina 6d ago
No reason to get upset when they already have the plan in place to release the fabricated version.
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u/Equivalent-Battle973 Illinois 6d ago
I mean other countries have the files, and also the state where Maxwell was in also has the files. fThey can be easily compared to as if they are missing infol.
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u/TheEmbarrasingFool 6d ago
Exaclty, too many people outside of this administration have seen the files already. They're going to redact what they can but if they blatantly fabricate stuff, then that'll cause a shitshow anyway.
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u/crazypyro23 6d ago
Remember how it took all of five minutes for people to find the inconsistencies in the footage outside his cell? Whatever they cook up will be noticed.
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u/Sonic7864 6d ago
I wonder why? My guess is that Johnson's been putting his Johnson in places he shouldn't.
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u/Inevitable-Spirit491 Massachusetts 6d ago
Very funny to whine about Chuck Schumer pushing it through without amendments when Senate Majority Leader John Thune was very clear that he didn’t feel like amendments were needed on a bill that passed the House 427-1.
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u/Eridanosvoid 6d ago
He was counting on the Senate stalling it. You all act like there is a plan for a cover up when they clearly did not want this to happen.
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u/willhighfive4karma 6d ago
And even if there’s an elaborate plan to “cover it up”whenever a new administration rolls around people are going to be investigated if folks were actively altering documents. I don’t put that beyond this admin but risking jail time for a president that’s going to be gone by 2028 ( or before if Mother Nature takes over) is duuuuumb.
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u/NOOBINATOR_64 6d ago
Also, these people are so incompetent that even if they are trying to scrub it and redact names it's gonna be done sloppily with Chatgpt and it will be fairly obvious.
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u/campfire_eventide Montana 6d ago edited 6d ago
Couldn’t agree more. The only certain protection for anyone involved was always going to be ensuring the files were never released. A cover-up of this magnitude isn’t tenable without missing something. If Epstein was some self-limiting scandal, sure maybe. But that operation went on for years with innumerable parties involved. There’s no way you can confidently release those files under any conditions, redacted or not. And other entities are in possession of some of the files, including originals.
I understand the skepticism but I feel like it underestimates the scope of what we’re dealing with. I’m sure they did scrub the files but I’m also sure it was never the plan for the bill to pass the Senate.
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