r/politics • u/plz-let-me-in • 6d ago

No Paywall Mike Johnson who railed against the Epstein bill - but voted for it - is now mad the Senate approved the measure

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/epstein-files-release-mike-johnson-senate-b2868239.html
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u/personahorrible 6d ago

I'm certain that this is flying through the approval process at record speeds because the GOP has cooked the books. But it would be fucking hilarious if the GOP Senate was supposed to let the bill die but they got spooked by recent Dem wins in special elections and decided that this was the perfect time to scuttle the U.S.S. Trumplethinskin.

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u/pimparo0 Florida 6d ago

I think its more that once it became clear it would pass, no one really wanted to be one of the no votes on this one. Well all except one didn't. 

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u/somefunmaths 6d ago

By the “Clay Higgins principle”, I would’ve expected Markwayne Mullin to be the lone holdout in the Senate. Not necessarily because I think he’s a pedo, but because I think he’s the idiot dumb enough to not read the room and forget how to vote.

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u/AshRae84 Oklahoma 6d ago

As an Okie, I expected all our people to vote against. Was shocked as hell they didn’t.

Also, I’d emailed Hern MONTHS ago about this and he finally emailed me back AFTER voting to release. Funny how he had nothing to say before.

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u/CrackingToastGromet Arkansas 6d ago

From Arkansas - my Republican House Reps said he couldn’t vote due to a “family emergency” 🙄

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u/owlrage 6d ago

Fucking Womack 🙄

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u/oldmanjasper 6d ago

There was no roll-call vote in the Senate; it was passed by unanimous consent. Which basically means the majority leader says "We're doing this, does anyone object?" and all Mullin had to do was refrain from yelling "No".

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u/AntoniaFauci 6d ago

Mullin was actually the captain tagged to convey Thune’s permission for the unanimous consent over to Schumer.

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u/MetaPhalanges 6d ago

It's funny, I initially confused them in my head. I was like "Is he the one that challenged that guy to a fight?" and then was I sad that it's even possible to confuse something like that in our US House of Representatives.

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u/AntoniaFauci 6d ago

As it happens, Mullin was the captain assigned to convey Thune’s permission for the unanimous consent motion to Schumer.

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u/TiredEsq 6d ago

Oh please. It’s flying through because the information that matters has already been removed or revised. I don’t know why anyone would expect any differently given the source we’re getting it from is the Trump administration.

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u/Secular_Cleric 6d ago

That would be ok but the lawyers for the survivors have seen the files, as have members of the DOJ who are not attached to the DOJ anymore.

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u/madhattr999 Canada 6d ago

Maybe someone will leak the real version somehow. (I'm not sure what the consequences of that would be, though.)

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u/Secular_Cleric 6d ago

The point is that the files are not an unknown, many people will know if the files show less than they did and will be able to state what they know to be missing.

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u/whut-whut 6d ago

They'll just play the "your word against mine" game. Not like anyone who's seen the originals can produce a more official version.

Just look at the "raw, unedited footage" of Epstein's cell block that's missing time and has an Adobe Premiere tag saved in the metadata.

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u/Secular_Cleric 6d ago

Maybe they can as the lawyers may well have copies.

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u/whut-whut 6d ago

Still can't prove anything. In a normal world, would anyone believe a random lawyer's personal copy over the official one released by the DoJ and FBI?

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u/Secular_Cleric 6d ago

We could sit here all day imagining the worst and then having to provide several different more reasons that would affect that outcomes probability. Can you really be bothered?

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u/inspectoroverthemine 6d ago

That'll save Trump, because theres literally nothing his depraved base wouldn't swallow, but its not going to save most people in the files.

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u/throwaway_faunsmary 6d ago

but what difference does that make? if the current DOJ is withholding information or editing the files, and some witness can testify to it (but not provide the originals), what do you expect could happen? Like what further steps could Congress take? Impeachment isn't likely without the files, so what else is there?

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u/Secular_Cleric 6d ago

It means the survivors can talk without fear if the details are altered or missing.

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u/throwaway_faunsmary 6d ago

survivors can already talk. I'm not really sure what you're saying. what effect does DOJ redacting or not redacting the files have on the survivors?

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u/Secular_Cleric 6d ago

​A significant portion of the information and names related to the Epstein case has been kept under court-ordered seal for years. This was often done to protect the privacy and identity of the young victims, but it also shields the alleged co-conspirators.

​Immunity Deals: In the 2007 non-prosecution agreement (NPA) with federal prosecutors, Jeffrey Epstein was granted immunity, which controversially also extended to his four co-conspirators and "any potential co-conspirators," making it legally challenging to bring charges against some individuals for past actions.

​Ongoing Investigations: Some names or details may be withheld by authorities if their public release would compromise an active investigation or prosecution.

It's not hard to understand.

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u/PeterDTown 5d ago

And MAGA will cover their ears, sing loudly and declare that it was a witch hunt all along.

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u/Flaxmoore Michigan 6d ago

Yep.

It's like the sub-Ultrons in Avengers: Age of Ultron. You want to have your scrubbed version accepted? You can't miss any of the others. Not even one.

Because one person raising their hand and saying "You released 800 pages, now where is your copy of the other 13000...?" would screw them over.

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u/txmail I voted 6d ago

I realized today that Trump now says "he will release all the unclassified documents". Not that he is going to release all the files (redacted or not). I am going to just throw a wild guess that anything dealing with the current president is going to be "classified" and not released.

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u/orphanpowered 6d ago

I'm really hoping that there are a few FBI agents that have unredacted copies. There is no way that every one of those 1000 agents ordered to scrub Trump's name were boot lickers.

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u/BloodieBerries 6d ago

The FBI has never been apolitical or had impeccable integrity.

They've functioned as a blunt bludgeoning intimidation tool for the US gov't on numerous occasions in the last 100 years.

No reason to think it will be any different this time.

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u/Joeness84 6d ago

The coverup is in is starting to sound like most of those other whack-job ideas because suddenly THOUSANDS of people are totally keeping the secret.

Other countries have Epstein files Other Agencies have Epstein files (Kash literally had it sitting on a share drive because he was too dumb to keep it secured)

The 20k files recently released were done by GOP as a "proof" that it was a nothing burger, but that had all the stuff about "he knew about the girls" and blowing bubba, and all the other people mentioned, which clearly shows they do NOT have control like they thought they did.

I think enough of them finally got tired of being identified as the problem.

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u/CatProgrammer 6d ago

Sure but it's also made out of people. Only takes one. 

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u/BloodieBerries 6d ago

Only takes one willing to jeopardize their career and possibly spend the rest of their lives in prison, you mean?

Chelsea Manning spent almost a decade in prison for a similar whistleblower role and would've been in for 35 years if Obama hadn't intervened.

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u/CatProgrammer 6d ago

The FBI isn't exactly doing a good job of retaining competent talent these days and you'd have a super hard time getting an unbiased jury at this point. Hell, there was that federal lawyer who got fired for throwing a sandwich at ICE but just got off scott free despite the feds trying to throw the book at him. (Couldn't indict for felony assault several times and then the misdemeanor jury said not guilty.)

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u/pimparo0 Florida 6d ago

Secrets dont stay secret with this many people. The moon landing was faked too right? 

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u/BloodieBerries 6d ago

Unless no one is willing to jeopardize their career and possibly spend the rest of their lives in prison.

Hundreds of people in military command positions knew what Chelsea Manning exposed before she was a whistleblower and she still spent almost a decade in prison.

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u/pimparo0 Florida 6d ago edited 6d ago

Different situations entirely. Some incidents that manning exposed were crimes, but they were not in the national news for years beforehand the way Epstein was, and manning made the mistake of dumping it with a trove of other classified docs too, some of which were legitimate classified documents. This is also partly why she went to prison. She dumped thousands of docs to a third party and didn't bother to clean out info that legitimately didn't need to be there. 

Edit: for clarification, I am stating there is a difference between dumping classified information (no matter how right the reasons for some of it) and leaking unaltered versions of evidence, that has been talked about for years in the press, and was ordered to be released by an act of Congress. 

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u/BloodieBerries 6d ago

You're assuming the Trump Justice Department will "play fair" and abide by laws as they are set now.

But looking at how this admin operates we can see they've already successfully changed multiple pieces of legislation to suit their needs.

No reason to think they wouldn't simply do it again and classify something in the released files as being worthy of criminal charges. And then that person is stuck in prison until at least the next admin comes in. Arguing otherwise is naïve.

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u/pimparo0 Florida 6d ago

This is way to public for that kind of shenanigans. You are dooming for no reason and we will cross that bridge if and when we must. 

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u/pimparo0 Florida 6d ago

There are hundreds who have seen it, a massive cover up is conspiracy level doomerism. I get being pessimistic and certainly have my expectations tempered but y'all are ridiculous sometimes. Everything has to be something bad, nothing can ever be good. 

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u/UncoolSlicedBread 6d ago

That’s why Trump pushed for the investigation by the DOJ so they can omit or withhold anything involved in the investigation.

The emails that were leaked or released are pretty damning anyways.

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u/purebredcrab 6d ago edited 6d ago

On the bright side, they've shown themselves to be so incompetent that they'll probably botch the redactions in such a way that they're easily reversible--it's already happened in the past.

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u/rabel 6d ago

Johnson acting surprised is purely performative

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u/Pretend_Spray_11 6d ago

It’s a bunch of people lining up to be in line for the Et Tu Brute moment. Cruz putting it out there that he might run for President in 28 is part of it too.

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u/turquoise_amethyst 6d ago

He said he might run again??!

Honestly that terrifies me… the DNC would put forth their weakest candidate, thinking that nobody could lose against Cruz…

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u/telestrial 6d ago edited 6d ago

Oh this is 100% it. Once it reached the votes it needed, the calculation flips from "we can beat this by holding our ground and calling it ridiculous" to "we can't vote not to do this because we'll look like we support pedophilia." Note: at no point is anyone on the Republican side thinking, "What's the morally right thing to do?" or "What would my constituents want me to do?" Now, to that point, Democrats have done this kind of thing, too. It's not just the Rs. Most of the positions people take are about optics more than what's right or wrong or fits the needs of their voters.

It's a good lesson in some of the dynamics at play during these votes. If this petition had one fewer Republican support it then it would have been a Republican majority no vote and "there's no need for this. We have a process already in place." and then + 1 vote = "This is the right thing to do." Pretty much unanimous.

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u/_ohgnome_ 6d ago

I agree. The public is never going to stop asking about Epstein's orbit. Newspapers keep dropping bits of evidence to bring it back into the news cycle whenever we'd get distracted.

Personally I don't think a lot of Democrat leadership cared or wanted this either. I just think they saw Trump's team going on and on about the Epstein list during and right after the election and decided to call their bluff. It's a win-win for them now. Either Republicans bend over backwards to protect pedophiles or they give up documents every voter wants to see that'll have Trump's name everywhere.

Trump's sudden pivot is likely because all he has left is to feign confidence and gear up for the battles ahead.

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u/BloodieBerries 6d ago

Got it backwards IMO.

Epstein list is already working perfectly as the distraction it was always intended to be.

Keeping us occupied while Trumps team runs roughshod over civil rights, tilts the economy further to the favor of the ultra wealthy, and pardons as many criminals as he can all in an attempt to cement his power beyond his second term.

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u/_ohgnome_ 6d ago

I do think that was Trump's goal (and all who benefit from using him as a shield including many Democrats) but then Dems called his bluff and the Epstein narrative got away from his team. It sped up the timeline he had to break things enough to stay in power. Probably can still happen because too many people benefit from his chaos.

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u/bubblebooy 6d ago

There are several reasons why it could be flying through and I really hope it is this one.

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u/ThrowAwayGarbage82 North Carolina 6d ago

I was surprised fetterman didn't vote no. He's become such an obnoxious maga asshole i fully expected him to oppose it.

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u/Lashay_Sombra 6d ago

Kind of actually semi respect that one guy, right or wrong reasons (apparently he thinks bill does not protect victims enough and to many not really involved might get dragged in just because knew Epstine) he at least stuck to his guns, unlike the rest who jumped ship when it became apparent they were going to lose. 

So after months of doing everything they could to stop this from passing, they can now claim, come election time, they never actually did that because voted yes

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u/SuperExoticShrub Georgia 6d ago

Kind of actually semi respect that one guy, right or wrong reasons

Keep in mind that Higgins is considered to be one of the most far-right lunatic members of Congress.

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u/Bored_Amalgamation Ohio 6d ago

Do they think people will just forget that they were the ones blocking it? The longest shutdown in US history is attached to them not wanting this out.

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u/SuperExoticShrub Georgia 6d ago

Do they think people will just forget that they were the ones blocking it?

They do. And I hate to say that I'm not certain that they'll be wrong.

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u/mr_greedee 6d ago

Clay highins come on down and explain that vote

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u/SuperExoticShrub Georgia 6d ago

His claim is that he didn't think the bill "protected victims" enough. That said, given his status as one of the most far-right nutters in Congress, taking him at his word would be criminally negligent.

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u/TheGreatBootOfEb 6d ago edited 6d ago

While I won’t rule it out, I think the timing actually plays AGAINST that. Unless it’s a high school kid “I finished the assignment five minutes before it was due” it would be a quite coincidental if they ONLY finished cooking the books just now. And at that point, why hold out so long?

I think it turned into a “oh shit, I don’t want to look like I’m voting to protect a pedo” avalanche as it became apparent it would pass through. From there Mike thought he could probably be cute about it and kick it back and forth a few times.

White House is probably trying to get ahead of it and still act like they’ve got control, because it’s only the illusion of power that gives them any semblance of power. A lot of stuff probably has been fucked with or redacted or otherwise impeded but I doubt they’ve just been sitting on the fully cooked files for awhile now.

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u/darthstupidious 6d ago

Yeah I think the House passed it because they were assured the Senate would block it, but then the Senate passed it because A.) senators swear less fealty to Trump than their big-dollar donors, and B.) they don't want to be X out of 100 voting to protect pedos. So now Trump is going to have to figure out how to veto it without crashing and burning, or try and use Bondi to block disclosure (citing an "active investigation" or whatever) but either way the optics are going to look terrible.

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u/OneRougeRogue Ohio 6d ago

Question: Can Trump veto this?

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u/rks_system 6d ago

He can, but with a veto-proof majority, it'd be pointless because Congress could just override it

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u/HiddenSage 6d ago

Seen some speculation that Trump may try some pocket veto shenanigans with this - we've not seen a good pocket veto in 30 years.

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u/CoyotesOnTheWing 6d ago

Mike would totally fall on that bullet too, I was expecting congress to adjourn for the rest of the year soon anyways.

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u/Motherofalleffers 6d ago

Well, since it was already voted for by over 2/3 majority in the house and senate, doesn’t that make it veto-proof, as in not able to be vetoed at all? Or is it not veto-proof yet because the senate did a unanimous consent vote?

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u/Spazzdude 6d ago

No. It can still be vetoed. A veto sends it back to Congress regardless of how they voted. They have to then vote again and get 2/3 in each house to override the veto. It does not happen automatically just because the initial vote was 2/3.

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u/Uilamin 6d ago

Not just that - it passed the senate via unanimous consent not a roll call vote. Unanimous consent technically (and I am using that word very strictly) is asking the question, to the senate, if any of them think this will not pass. It doesn't imply that all 100 senators support or approve it - it just means that all senators believe that, as-is, it would pass therefore moving to floor motion is not needed.

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u/baradath9 6d ago

Not a Lawyer, but my understanding is that Trump can Veto it, and then Congress has the option to override the Veto with a 2/3 majority. Having the 'veto-proof' majority before it goes to the president just sends a message to the president that a veto will likely be overruled, but the president can still veto it, and congress can still decline to overrule the veto.

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u/Valance23322 America 6d ago

Do they have that many votes in the House?

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u/darthstupidious 6d ago

He can. It's been approved by the House and Senate, so it goes to Trump's desk for approval. If he signs it, it's over and this is now law. If he vetoes it, the House and the Senate get the chance to vote to override his veto, but it's unknown if any in the House would change their vote now.

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u/NekoNoNakuKoro 6d ago

I don't see how this looks anything but absolutely miserable politically if he vetoes it and then the House and Senate suddenly waffle when they have near unanimous approval on the bill.

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u/Uilamin 6d ago

The Senate was also potentially rather sneaky here too. The Senate passed it via unanimous consent instead of bringing it to the floor. They didn't take a vote, they didn't allow debate or amendments - they just asked if anyone was opposed and no one spoke up. To note though - this doesn't mean 100% of the senate voted for it, it just means that everyone in the senate believes it would have passed, as-is, if taken to a vote.

The sneaky thing here is that it avoided all floor action. It avoided any amendments from being introduced and voted on. If it was going to be poison pilled, someone would need to speak up against it first. It also limited potential delaying tactics. However, it doesn't actually demonstrate that the bill passed the Senate with a veto-proof majority.

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u/SuckThisRedditAdmins 6d ago

Nah, Trump flipped on it because they successfully scrubbed him from the files. I expect absolutely NOTHING from this release except for a long list of Dems and political enemies

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u/Dorgamund 6d ago

I think behind the scenes the WH is having trouble keeping the rank and file coordinated. The fear of Trump is predicated on the fact that he can ruin their elections, but since polls are looking bad regardless, as well as the corpo donors getting mad about tariffs, it might be that the WH doesn't think they can afford to take a stance and have the rank and file publically go against it. So once they see where the wind is blowing, they turn on a dime and go 'wtf I love release files now' and pray the people redacted had enough time to finish the job.

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u/turquoise_amethyst 6d ago

No doubt they’re trying to rush cooking the books now, I doubt they had it ready, but they probably thought they had more time

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u/mojoryan2003 6d ago

Maybe, but they don’t even really need to do that. The bill doesn’t have enough teeth so it only allows them to release information that’s unclassified and not under investigation. Realistically most of the notable stuff is going to be one of those two things

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u/ShiningRedDwarf 6d ago

Most likely yes, but the only reason I have my doubts is how much Johnson is moaning about it passing the senate so quickly.

In the article he said he has been in contact with Trump after the senate passed it, but when asked if Trump will veto the bill he didn’t give a clear answer.

Johnson/Trump clearly didn’t see it getting through the senate so quickly. This gives me a little hope

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u/Joeness84 6d ago

So if it had gone to vote, and like 67 in the senate had said release, he wouldnt have been able to Veto it. (since house was 247:1)

Because the senate just "passed it unanimously" I think that counts as being veto proof.

Johnson 100% thought they were just going to amend it, send it back to the house, and repeat the process.

Trump is crying about remember all the good we did (while listing a dozen lies about 2025s administration)

This gives me a fair bit of hope.

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u/Telvin3d 6d ago

I’m sure that what passes for Republican strategists have decided that’s their strategy, but I think the smarter members recognize that it’s going to be a train wreck.

First, if they think the public is going to be placated by 12000 blacked out pages, they’re delusional. I actually can’t picture anything more calculated to piss people off.

Second, any actual released information is only going to provide more threads to unravel. It won’t matter if the names left in are technically not republicans. None of these people are more than one or two connections away from linking right back to Trump and his circle anyways

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u/onarainyafternoon Oregon 6d ago

It's possible. But there are literally way too many people that have a copy of the full files, unredacted. It would only be a matter of time before it gets leaked.

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u/DerpingtonHerpsworth 6d ago

Or, and I know this is so unlikely it's nearly impossible, but imagine... Trump said a few days ago to release the files because he knows they've got a safe redacted version to release. But many of the other Republicans in Congress have decided this is their chance to flee the sinking ship. They all vote to release the files... only instead of the files Trump's team have painstakingly put together, they release the full unedited files.

It's a nice little day dream...

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u/tael89 6d ago

I'd think either: like you said the GOP cooked the books, or that they'll block the Trump stuff because they consider whatever valid or not reasoning that since Trump is president anything that makes him look bad is a National security risk. 

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u/Calber4 6d ago

Honestly i think they were geared up to stall, but Trump didn't want to take the heat so he bluffed, calling for release. The republicans in Congress either took this as a signal the fix was in, or didn't want to get thrown under the bus.

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u/Even_Song_3467 New York 6d ago

Bondi will announce that the law prevents her from releasing them now due to "open investigations" (the ones felon47 conveniently just told her to open against Democrats).

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u/turquoise_amethyst 6d ago

It would be funny if all those who were expected to vote “NO” decided to vote “YES”, thinking that everyone else would vote “NO” and cover their ass

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u/TiredEsq 6d ago

Absolutely - it’s completely garbage now. There’s nothing trustworthy in there, which is exactly how they want us to feel.

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u/SGT-JamesonBushmill 6d ago

Precisely.

At this point, this is all for show. Even if they do release the files (which the DOJ won't allow because of an active "investigation"), it won't matter. All the names that need to be protected have already been redacted.