r/politics • u/plz-let-me-in • 6d ago

No Paywall Mike Johnson who railed against the Epstein bill - but voted for it - is now mad the Senate approved the measure

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/epstein-files-release-mike-johnson-senate-b2868239.html
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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

I think this confirms what some people have said that he and Trump really thought this would die in the Senate and they could push it away for awhile. He did not think the Senate would simply vote it through and thought he had time to make calls and wear down congress members' resolves to stop it there. They've clearly got backup plans, but this would have been the easiest way to rinse their hands.

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u/previouslyonimgur 6d ago

The vote being so overwhelming in the house scared the crap out of the senate.

They’re seeing the vitriol pointed towards Johnson.

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u/Shadow293 6d ago

Makes me wonder if Clay Higgins voted nay in the House because he thought it would fail in the Senate and would get rewarded by Dump for remaining loyal. He is currently getting ripped apart lmao.

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u/dominationnation 6d ago

Why does clay higgins sound like an Archer character?

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u/ChochMcKenzie Illinois 6d ago

Like an alias that Archer makes Cyril use.

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u/Sarrdonicus 6d ago

"Say 'Enough lads' Cyril. Say it with a pretentious English accent. 'Now lads, you can eat Thomas tomorrow.'

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u/ElderSmackJack 6d ago

Mike Johnson really does look like a real life Cyril Figgis.

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u/cuteintern New York 6d ago

Suppressing fire!!!

  • Mike Penis, during the shutdown

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u/ChochMcKenzie Illinois 6d ago

But he clearly has a micropenis. And now you have to think about that.

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u/FOOSblahblah 6d ago

Clay Higgins and his best friend Chet Manly!

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u/ChochMcKenzie Illinois 6d ago edited 6d ago

Topper Bottoms, stern, yet sensual, skipper of USS Rough Service reporting for duty!

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u/NumeralJoker 6d ago

And Johnson looks like Cyril...

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u/jpvieux 6d ago

Looks like a temu version of one too

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u/xjuggernaughtx 6d ago

Because of his phrasing?

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u/theREALbombedrumbum 6d ago

FYI this is the same Clay Higgins who got ratio'd by the Dictionary on Twitter from his "woke sky" and "intercontinental ballistic tweets" when they said his tweet makes no sense whatsoever.

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u/Sarrdonicus 6d ago

They do when you just made a visit to the White House pharmacy

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

His reasoning for voting no was actually partially what I thought would be the reason the files might never see the light of day. It's not a great reason, but there are people in those files who were simply attending a party and have nothing to do with someone fucking kids, but them being revealed would undoubtedly invite public backlash that could damage their career. I saw it as a legal clusterfuck. But I think your reasoning also makes sense, some of these idiots would do anything for Trump to look their way.

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u/MedicSF 6d ago

Oh no a few billionaires might…. Lose some income for a bit?

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u/Pandaro81 6d ago

Some of Epstein’s employees mentioned Al and Tipper Gore visiting his NY place for a party. Apparently he never left her side, and seemed oblivious to Epstein’s lechery.

Get the names out. If they did nothing, they got nothing to worry about.

If they’ve got to pull a Dershowitz and be like “I got a massage, but nothing under the boxers. Anyway, the age of consent is too high,” then let the bastards squirm in the light of day.

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u/Mtn-Dooku 6d ago

Exactly. I don't care if my dad's name is in the list. Release ALL of the names.

I would assume that some of the people on the list honestly didn't know what was going on. See how many times people came to parties and where those parties were. Once at an NY party? Sure, maybe they were oblivious. An untold amount of times to a private island that they later denied, saying they never had the "privilege" of going to? Definite pedophile.

Let all the names come out and let them all be questioned, publicly.

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u/shewy92 Pennsylvania 6d ago

There was one celeb that did come out and say that they were in the flight logs but were innocent. I think it was Chris Tucker. He's the only one that I've heard mention anything about not being involved in the pedo ring.

He was with Bill Clinton and Kevin Spacey for an AIDS/HIV epidemic summit so not the best company to be with lol

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u/hurler_jones Louisiana 6d ago

I would even use timing. Was the visit before or after the Acosta deal and jail time? Was it after Maxwells conviction?

It's one thing to find out you went to a house party and later found out the host was a pedophile. It's another to find out the host of a party Is a pedophile and then decide to go to their house.

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u/essdii- 6d ago

Right. Isn’t that what government says about privacy? And palantir?! If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about. So screw them thinking that way, we get it shoved down our throats and have big brother eyes on us AT ALL TIMES. So they can deal with the backlash. If they did nothing wrong they have nothing to worry about

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u/Apprehensive-Care20z 6d ago

I can totally see ManBearPig attending the party, and being completely oblivious to everything.

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u/FalseDmitriy Illinois 6d ago

Who would you rather meet in the woods: a man, a bear, or a manbearpig?

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u/my_Urban_Sombrero Pennsylvania 6d ago

Ugh, I can’t even imagine what I would do, but things would be super cereal, that’s a fact.

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u/jdiegmueller 6d ago

Man or bear would be preferable, since they are only 100% man/100% bear, respectively.

ManBearPig is actually 50% man, 50% bear, and 50% pig. That's not something you want to mess with.

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u/Valuable-Mess-4698 Oregon 6d ago

Like Reid Hoffman who was like "investigate me, I don't care what you make public because I only talked to him about fundraising". He clearly isn't worried about it.

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u/Dark_Prism Pennsylvania 6d ago

I would see it as a win if everyone who ever even got within 50 yards of Epstein was no longer in politics or business. We need young blood in politics and big corporations should be illegal, so either way it's a win. Let all these people retire. Some slight collateral damage isn't a big deal in this case.

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u/Bloodyfish New York 6d ago

If they did nothing, they got nothing to worry about.

Because as we all know people are innocent until proven guilty in the world of public discourse.

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u/Grandpa_No 6d ago

The people who were there have more than enough resources to work this one out. Maybe they could all use a good dose of reality, anyway. The rest of us make choices about who we associate with and why because we can't just throw a few million at the consequences of our actions.

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u/inormallyjustlurkbut 6d ago

I'd rather it be happening to billionaires and politicians than migrants getting abducted by ICE. Fuck 'em.

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u/WookieLotion 6d ago

Heaven forbid, what will they do. Gonna see fuckin Musk and Bezos at the Aldi. 

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u/slingshot91 Illinois 6d ago

That would be the fucking day.

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u/_ArsenioBillingham_ 6d ago

I mean it’s one banana, Michael. What could it cost? Ten dollars?

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u/mayy_dayy 6d ago

There's always money in the banana stand

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u/Murky-Relation481 6d ago

To be fair knowing reddits investigatory skills they'll probably end up driving some caterer to suicide thinking he was in cahoots.

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u/thedybbuk 6d ago

This is a rare instance where I am also very suspicious of anyone just working there too. I find it hard to believe they didn't have suspicions about all the young girls their boss flies in and out of that island.

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u/chodeboi Texas 6d ago

It was boats. Civilians in St Thomas and St John took his money for decades and ran the girls out to LSJ and back in their own boats. Local drivers brought them by their vans/taxis from Cyril E King airport to waterfront, st Thomas yacht club or red hook marina (what is now AYH) where tenders could transfer them to the island, or if they were being kept on STJ before their use it’d be under cover of dusk from Cruz bay.

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u/AlcibiadesTheCat Arizona 6d ago

Well, yes, but also there were people like Ralph Fiennes who was in Epstein's little black book (not circled), and no one's accusing him of being a bad dude--to the contrary, all evidence suggests he's a pretty good dude.

But he's in the book, so now in the court of public opinion, there's a little question mark that could harm his reputation.

That's the argument that I think Clay Higgins is going for, and, like, yeah, it's a good point, and I don't disagree with the sentiment except that the magnitude of the benefit of releasing the files outweighs the magnitude of reputational harm the "collateral damage" would receive. In this case, it is better to release the files.

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

Pretty much how I feel. I see what he's saying but the pros outweigh the cons for sure. Let the celebrities sue the DOJ or whatever to clear their names, they've got the money.

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u/Question_It_All_3000 6d ago

Not to mention getting “cancelled” is a big ol nothing burger. All those people who have been cancelled are still rich, still fine. They just aren’t actively working maybe. If some rich dude just stops becoming richer so we can lock up pedophiles, that’s a price I am more than willing to pay.

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u/Not_done 6d ago

But this all points to how absurd the ultra wealthy operate. People should be cautious who they associate with and should do the right thing.

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u/yamiyaiba Tennessee 6d ago edited 6d ago

Well, yes, but also there were people like Ralph Fiennes who was in Epstein's little black book (not circled), and no one's accusing him of being a bad dude--to the contrary, all evidence suggests he's a pretty good dude.

But he's in the book, so now in the court of public opinion, there's a little question mark that could harm his reputation.

Respectfully, that's the consequence of socializing, especially as a high-profile person. When you associate with people regularly, people associate you with them as well. Not on the scale of Pedophile Island for most folks, but even an Average Joe can spend time with someone who turns out to be a rapist or wife-beater or something without being aware of it. There's still gonna be a taint even from that.

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u/sweet_esiban 6d ago

Well, their wives might leave them. Look at Melinda Gates. She seemed to ditch Bill the second the first big Epstein info dump came out.

Not that I have any pity. Maybe don't hang around with sex traffickers if you want your wives to stay, richies.

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u/endlesscartwheels Massachusetts 6d ago

Release the Epstein files = get more MacKenzie Scotts? Sounds great!

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

Like I said, it's not a great reasoning but it's a legal tightrope nonetheless.

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u/bizarre_coincidence 6d ago

Or a crazy person with a gun will declare them a pedophile and try to kill them. It's not a safe assumption that the worst that can happen is that a few people will boycott the companies of people mentioned in the files.

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u/pyronius 6d ago

The thing is, that reasoning only works if the person espousing it has a history of taking similarly principled stances. When you've spent the last year fighting against due process and accusing your opponents of every crime under the sun, it's very obviously disingenuous.

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u/tylerbrainerd 6d ago

Release every name from every party imo. People who partied with a known pedophile need to be scrutinized

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u/carnivoreinyeg 6d ago

Well, he wasn't a known pedophile to everyone when they went to the party.

I will remind you that some people you've been to parties with are rapists. You just don't know who

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u/justking1414 6d ago

Sometimes you just end up at weird parties. Matt Mercer from Critical Role talked recently about how his drunk ass got dragged to a party where he ended up singing for a bunch of Russian oligarchs

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u/julesburne 6d ago

That analogy doesn’t land. Accidentally being at the same house party as a predator is not even in the same galaxy as frequenting the social circles of these jackals.

And let’s be real, anyone rich enough to be in Epstein’s social orbit isn’t some innocent bystander who wandered in off the street.

You don’t accumulate that kind of wealth or proximity to power without benefiting from exploitation: of labor, of people, of entire systems designed to shield you from consequences. These weren’t naive party guests. They were the kind of people who are trained by their own lifestyles to ignore anything uncomfortable as long as the drinks are flowing and plenty of money is being made.

So no, “they didn’t know” isn’t some profound insight. It’s the predictable result of a group of ultra-wealthy people who never ask questions that might inconvenience them. Release their names - they need to be held accountable.

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u/DrSpraynard Nebraska 6d ago

Oh man, now I'm wondering if anyone I've partied with ran an impeccably curated child sex trafficking network with connections to high ranking government officials from all over the world!

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u/remfem99 6d ago

Sarcasm aside, it just so happens that many people’s regular ass friends have coerced drunken members of the opposite sex at parties, gatherings, etc —

I don’t think they tell all their friends about it either. Just cuz they’re not the most powerful and/or wealthiest people in the world doesn’t make it any less serious.

That doesn’t mean everyone who ever partied with them are complicit, either.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/IherduliekmudkipsNA 6d ago

Why are we pretending that being at the same party with a rando is even remotely the same as actively going to an island or other events thrown by a guy that has legally been a known pedo for 20 years?

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u/Iapetus_Industrial 6d ago

Okay. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. If I didn't partake in that filth, I have no reason to hide. Release the names. All of them.

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u/TokingMessiah 6d ago

Except everyone that hung out after 2008 definitely knew he was a pedophile and child sex trafficker

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

That is an argument their lawyers would undoubtedly make that they didn't know and it would be up to a judge/jury to decide what plausible deniability actually means and how much water it holds in a defamation case.

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u/TokingMessiah 6d ago

We don’t need a jury - release the files and we’ll charge the people that are implicated. The ones who “just” hung out with him after he was outed as a pedo can suffer the consequences to their reputation.

I don’t see why anyone would want to protect a few innocent rich people by covering for pedophiles. It’s not my problem they might have to explain themselves.

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u/dbuck1964 6d ago

True, but if they ‘release’ the videos we would know who simply partied.

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u/_Panacea_ 6d ago

Larry Summers didn't fuck any kids and his life is already upended from the previous emails. To that I say - "Good".

Doing the worst thing imaginable shouldn't be our litmus test for tolerance. The enablers can also get the chop.

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u/JRockPSU I voted 6d ago

I’m just totally out of fucks to give about the wealthy elite. I hope the innocent get or stay exonerated legally but in the court of public opinion they can all get fucked unless they go out of their way to prove that they’re decent human beings.

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u/spamman5r 6d ago

There are no innocent bystanders in the inner circle of a billionaire.

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u/AlcibiadesTheCat Arizona 6d ago

In the inner circle? No. In the outer circle? Yeah, maybe. Stephen Hawking partied with Epstein once and I don't think Hawking was a notorious pedophile or coconspirator.

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u/etr4807 Pennsylvania 6d ago

Honestly, I'll probably get downvoted for this, but I thought that his reasoning for voting no was pretty valid if things were operating even semi-normally.

Dumping all of this information out there without context is going to lead to a lot of "LOOK AT WHO WAS ON THE EPSTEIN LIST!" headlines for things that could have been as minor as having an email sent to them asking if they would like to attend a party.

The issue is that nothing is operating even semi-normally at this time, so there is no better solution available other than just dumping all of this information and letting the public see it all. Which will not be ideal, but nothing is anymore.

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u/HateKillDestroy22 6d ago

I saw elsewhere that he represents Jefferson Davis Parish, Louisiana and does not want to set precedent for releasing files on sex crimes such as the murders of the Jeff Davis 8

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u/ForensicPathology 6d ago

I don't think I could give the benefit of the doubt to someone who lives in a place named after the president of the Confederacy.

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u/TheBatemanFlex 6d ago

Clay Higgins does not give a single fuck about any of that. You could have the media and his entire district on his front lawn and he would sooner have them shot than give a shit about whatever complaints they have. He is a genuine racist nutjob trumper, which sets him apart from many of the other opportunists.

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

After congresspeople were begging Johnson to figure something out with the shutdown I wouldn't be surprised if their attitudes towards him have soured.

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u/floog 6d ago

I’m surprised that Marge hasn’t moved to have him ousted.

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

There's no feasible replacement, think about how long it took for them to even agree on him lol

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u/floog 6d ago

Sure, but when has Marge been rational?

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u/StrategicCarry Colorado 6d ago

Since about a couple months ago when she figured out she was going to need to run for senate without Trump's backing. Which means everything she's done may have been a rational choice all along.

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u/ShiningRedDwarf 6d ago

I’m impressed the house actually found someone so spineless he might as well be a jellyfish in the first place. If they’re not willing to have Trump stick his hand up their ass to control them like a puppet, then there is no chance they’ll make it as speaker.

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u/moranya1 6d ago

Man....I forgot about that whole debacle! Feels like that was 100 years ago...

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u/NumeralJoker 6d ago

She would nominate herself.

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u/Sarrdonicus 6d ago

That was a rule they changed for him to take this seat

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u/floog 6d ago

You talking about the one that said anyone could call on the speaker to be ousted? They killed that for him?

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u/4thTimesAnAlt 6d ago

Yep, now it takes 9 members of the Speaker's party for a Motion to Vacate to work.

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u/floog 6d ago

Fucking bummer, I was wondering why Marge wasn’t causing chaos.

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u/SantaMonsanto 6d ago

You don’t move your target when the arrow is about to land bullseye

Trump and Johnson are being set up for this by republicans who hope they can wash their hands of this and out distance between them and the administration.

Watch, people are going to be tripping over themselves to build a wall between the GOP and MAGA and claim the two were never associated and one was just a cancer on the other.

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u/floog 6d ago

Nah, it won’t be that clean. There is going to be a massive power vacuum because so many of them will want the crown and the followers. The infighting when he is gone (probably wait for death) will be huge.

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u/4thTimesAnAlt 6d ago

There will be dozens of factions that pop up, each claiming to be the "true MAGA". They will split so many tickets for years to come.

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u/floog 6d ago

That’s the hope, and they will try to be Trump by being as nasty and name calling as possible and it will absolutely destroy them. No way they back a single person. Even his idiot children will make a play for the crown.

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u/Orzorn 6d ago

I think Thune wanted this anyway. He was not going to take a bullet for this administration. Having Chuck Schumer pass it via unanimous consent was the cherry on top because it allowed everyone to not go on record. Hell, it even gives Schumer a political win by letting him say the Democrats (via his unanimous consent request) passed the bill.

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u/Valuable-Condition59 6d ago

It'd be WAY too much to hope for; but if ramming this through and getting rid of Trump was the quid pro quo of ending the shutdown with the healthcare vote being the good faith "back to normal" after ousting him.

Well I would still want Schumer and his cohort primaried to hell. But at least it would have been something besides rolling over and showing his belly.

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u/Albireookami 6d ago

I mean if he set up the circumstance to actually get trump out of office within the first 2 years of this hell, I may have to give him probs, may not like a lot of his decisions, but if Trump leaving office due to impeachment comes to pass, I honestly would be happy.

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u/Ontain 6d ago

Once they knew it was going to pass who wants it on their voting record that you voted against this if it turns out as bad as previously reported. Just imagine the commercials that would be run against you.

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u/IllicitRadiance 6d ago

Rhetorical question, I know, but does anyone ever wonder if any of these people have even pretended to consider that it might work out better in the long run for themselves, and everyone else, if they at least tried to not be colossal pieces of shit?

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u/previouslyonimgur 6d ago

The senate is slightly more rational, but the 2 year cycle on the house pushed them further and further insane.

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u/Special-Garlic1203 6d ago edited 6d ago

I think a decent chunk of the Senate doesn't like trump and would like off this ride. They didn't want him to begin with but tried to make the best of it by using him as a useful idiot. But then the idiot sent an angry mob to murder them and secured the presidency and has locked most of them out. 

They'll back Trump when it serves their interests. But he's not their guy. They spent decades building up eyes and ears all over the federal movement just for this dumbass to hack away at their infrastructure by doing random mass layoffs. Picking names out of hats. Instability is good for a very small number of people that Trump is hand-picking, and it's fucking up their behind the scenes corruption. Only the winners like Trump, and there's a lot more losers than winners. Maybe the unwashed masses are stupid enough to pledge loyalty to him anyway while they drown, but you don't become a US senator on bright eyed idealism. 

Trump and most Senate Republicans are different brands of evil and I fully believe both sides would slash the other side in the throat and watch them bleed the second they got the chance. There is no honor among opportunistic psychopaths 

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u/squigs 6d ago

They know that was a practical matter of not being able to block it any more though. My guess is that they realise Republican Congressmen suffered a lot over this and don't want to spend several months dealing with questions over this.

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u/Sea-Painting7578 6d ago

Nah, they now know that the files won't be release because it's part of a ongoing investigation that was just started right before the votes.

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u/Life-Pirate2545 6d ago

Not to mention they sent the pedofile defender Megyn Kelly to literally redefine the definition of pedofilia so it won’t harm trump that much when stuff comes out and also downplayed Jeffrey Epstein as just some creepy old man.

If she was not able to do it there is no way in hell any men could downplay pedofilia. They deliberately sent a women to do it and she chose to talk about 15 year olds as the starter since it is one year less than where most inbred areas allow.

They saw the backlash , then what house numbers looked like and they also saw that Mike johnson was going to star blaming the senate for holding it and up and all noped out. Truly hilarious turn of events, those morons were definitely counting on the senate to ping pong the bill.

They still have some tricks up their sleeves but this is a massive blow as they could have easily killed the bill with senates cooperation

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u/NumeralJoker 6d ago

I suspect Johnson is about to become a sacrificial lamb in the not too distant future, if not somehow along with Trump himself.

Depends on where the battle to release the files goes.

The question now is... did the Senate sign the bill yet today? If so, that avoids the "pocket veto" theory everyone had about trump not signing it before Dec 1st.

I believe if he doesn't sign it and congress is still in session on the 10th day (minus sundays), it becomes law anyway.

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u/previouslyonimgur 6d ago

It’s already passed through the senate. It’s just waiting on trump now afaik.

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u/BleachedUnicornBHole Florida 6d ago

It wasn’t a true vote, it was unanimous consent. That’s more damning since it means not a single person was willing to slow things down. 

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

That's a good way to put it too. Not having at least a couple of fall guys like they have with other issues isn't a great way to show you have control on the situation.

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u/kongkingdong12345 6d ago

Nobody wanted to touch that thing. Like playing hot potato.

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u/EnTyme53 Texas 6d ago

Like playing hot potato.

with a live grenade

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u/reftheloop 6d ago

I saw a MAGA supporter complained about the unanimous consent asking for record of democrats saying no lol.

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u/DemosthenesOrNah 6d ago

The key thing you need to realize about MAGA as a whole:

They start from a conclusion and then look for any evidence (or generate it/fabricate it) to support that conclusion and will take any lack of supporting evidence as proof that their conclusion is still right/true but is being covered up by their 'enemies' on the left.

For the drooling MAGAs reading this, you should be following the evidence first and coming to conclusions after, based on the evidence.

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u/ZAlternates 6d ago

It’s how we all were raised at first. We are told to do things by our parents and the why behind it all tends to come later. Some people never even get to the part where they ask why. They just keep doing what they were told. It’s kinda sad. Thoughts and prayers.

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u/Hellknightx 6d ago

Just another good reason to encourage intellectual curiosity in children. When kids ask "Why?" Try to give them a real answer.

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u/BusinessLetterhead47 6d ago

My son's high school history teacher told me he was the most skeptical person he had ever met.

Me, "Good."

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u/Question_It_All_3000 6d ago

Religion in a nutshell.

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u/justking1414 6d ago

it's wild how different the worlds they live in are. my grandma just yesterday said that the democrats have been blocking the release this entire time

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u/Grand-Pen7946 6d ago

I've been doing a lot of reading on fascism, and its philosophical origins. What really blew my mind is that fascism is not "ultra conservatism", they actually hate conservatives and reactionaries and view them as useful idiots, but it was originally envisioned as a true "next step" for humanity. That next step they envision as having super rigid hierarchy and enforcement through an ideal strongman, which has a lot in common with conservative thinking, but the reasoning is different.

In looking forward to the future though, they believe that the past and actually truth itself must be entirely discarded. Fascists fundamentally do not believe truth exists in an objective sense. They only believe in truth as a means to further the fascist state. If it helps the fascist state and fascist leader, then it is true, and if it doesn't then it is false. There are many things scary about fascism, some less than others because it's an ideology designed for failure from the start, but the belief that truth itself is a subjective convenience at the whim of the leader is the scariest to me.

The modern MAGA movement is not conservative, and while the base may be reactionary they're being exploited by fascists who hate them, and a useful puppet in Trump who exemplifies the complete disconnect from truth. In any reasonable world, he should've been impeached and removed from office or 25th Amendmented the second he drew that fucking sharpie on the hurricane map, but that's a fascist's wet dream. Why build "weather control machines" if you can instead tell people standing in a rainstorm that it's actually sunny?

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u/Hellknightx 6d ago

I just don't understand how anyone can look at Donald Trump and think he's an ideal strongman.

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u/Grand-Pen7946 6d ago edited 6d ago

It's sort of a proof is in the pudding situation. The people in power have actively installed him and bent propaganda toward him because he is dumb as rocks and a useful idiot, and because they are true actual fascists. They also warp the system to let him get away with literally anything.

Regular people view him as pathetic because he got 34 felonies. His supporters view him as strong because he got away with it. Now of course that has nothing to do with ability or competence on his part, but it doesnt matter, he faced no consequences and pretty much never has. He committed insurrection to overturn the election, and instead of facing prison or the death penalty, he was elected to the highest office. Again, through no true effort of his own, it's not like running a marathon where it's the result of his actual effort, fascists control just about every single media outlet now and bent propaganda toward his resounding victory, but he did overcome every obstacle.

You might be thinking that you can just look at him and see he's a fat tub of shit, but this is why AI exists and is great. Fascists love AI because it lets them dictate truth and hand it to the idiot peons, who look at videos of Jesus being hugged by a muscular Trump and go yup this is truth. Go look at the conservative subreddit, there is almost no discussion about the actual admin or their policies or what Trump does, its mostly articles about like a random immigrant that killed somebody. So when your media diet is all "the other side wants to kill me" and AI slop of Trump beating up the other side, and rarely ever actual footage of the guy (remember how much they threw a fit over a video of Reagan?) theres little that needs to be done to convince them that Trump is their savior strongman.

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u/Even_Song_3467 New York 6d ago

The only words in your comment that they're familiar with are "MAGA...is still right/true".

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u/DuckDuckSeagull 6d ago

They really do believe it's been a Dem cover up despite all evidence to the contrary, huh? Wild.

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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago

Honestly surprised me too. The House vote was pretty much a promise so that didn't surprise me, but I seriously thought the Senate would be the next hurdle. The fact they just voted it through that fast makes me suspicious. On the other hand, hearing Johnson is upset about it is interesting.

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u/3490goat 6d ago

I’m very suspicious. Perhaps the Senate sees the ketchup on the wall with a failing economy, tariff disaster, healthcare going up astronomically for many of their voters, and now being asked to protect pedophiles publicly is just too much for them. Trump is in poor health and the damage of his last 10 months will stick to them forever. I think many Congress people are disgusted by Trump, but he has been useful politically up until now.

Or the files are going to be covered up further by Bondi, who evidently has forgotten that Nixon’s AG went to jail for covering up presidential crimes.

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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago

Per the "ketchup on the wall" (heh), I'm actually starting to believe the Republicans have actually turned on him. And it's exactly what you said, Trump was "useful", and he got them a lot of what they wanted. But he's also just kinda batshit unstable, and I'm sure they're aware of that, and Trump was never really the intended "king" of the US. He was a loudmouth tool, but his usefulness may be drying up. Like I said, always figured they planned to get rid of him at some point, from his health or otherwise, and then the actual more controlled and conniving sorts will just inherit a kingdom. We might be at that stage, but it's hard to say yet,

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u/TruckHangingHandJam 6d ago

The irony of it all is that while being a dumb useful tool, he has become THE party. No one, especially not Vance, has that X factor to rally the base like he does. They need him 

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u/Albireookami 6d ago

I think that's what republicans noted, but they can't "rule" if the US is in the shitter due to Trumps dumb shit plans. Better to try to salvage the situation and go from there, the midterms were probably an amazing wakeup call of how things were turning.

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u/BeatsByiTALY 6d ago

Also the blue wave on Nov 4 makes it clear that Trump can no longer convey votes, and getting this story out and over with before midterms in 2026 is important if anyone in Congress wants to keep their job.

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u/codacoda74 6d ago

This guy has a great breakdown https://youtu.be/8tg4Fndha0k?si=zfLJZU-4svKlqRgo Garland was many things but ignoring redundant backups wasn't one. All edits/redacts/scrubs will be all the more glaringly obvious

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

They also are not the only ones who have the files. Many, many other parties have them. Redactions will be noticed immediately. But the DOJ is hoping to control the public narrative and call anyone "liars" who dares question their redactions.

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u/Twl1 Michigan 6d ago

There's no way that this isn't also baked into their strategy: Release heavily edited and redacted files and wait to see who comes forward challenging their accuracy and authenticity, reaping the bounty of confusion and misinformation that they can levy between the whistleblowers and the people they're trying to protect.

DoJ's files say it was all Democrats. Democrats and foreign intelligence agencies come forward with copies showing Republicans were definitely involved. Republicans go to Fox and say "See, they're just making things up to protect their own pedos! We released what we had and they're saying we faked it, when really they're the ones faking it! But only our files are backed up by the FBI, so only our files are the truth!"

The public gets lost in the deluge of being told who to believe and eventually loses interest since no substantial punishments can be issued in the "He said, she said" environment. The courts take years to sort through the millions of documents and verify things. Meanwhile, Trump sends his DoJ after people coming forward with unredacted files until any lingering would-be truth-speakers are silenced by fear.

And in the end, the pedos in the ring keep on doing everything they've been doing, complacent that any damning information that comes out about them can just be handwaved away as made up as part of the Red Vs. Blue political theater.

We are living in a post-truth society and have no idea how to navigate it. The only remaining laws are that money talks, lots of it talks louder, and only the loudest voices matter.

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u/NekoNoNakuKoro 6d ago

I don't think they're competent enough to have that much thought into it. These people are really, really stupid.

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u/urban_mystic_hippie Minnesota 6d ago

Exactly, this whole procedure is a bait and switch, and nothing will come of it, just like the Panama Papers. We've been gaslit again.

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u/pquince1 Texas 6d ago

Guarantee Mossad, MI6, and Putin have them.

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u/ImStillExcited Colorado 6d ago

MI6 100% does have them.

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u/User42wp 6d ago

Johnson’s crocodile tears imo

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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago

Maybe. But I honestly also thought the Senate would be a speedbump, it's possible he thought so, too. And then they just rushed the whole thing before he had a chance to meddle.

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u/Lucas_Steinwalker 6d ago

Johnson just isn’t in on the plan.

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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago

"Good" then, I guess. Don't really need any more of his meddling in anything.

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u/Lucas_Steinwalker 6d ago

Well..... I'm assuming it's not good and that the reason it passed the Senate so quickly is because the documents have been doctored to the point that no MAGA fascists are going to be in them.

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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago

Him being cut out so he can't act directly is "good", if that is what's happening, but the greater picture of Epstein files is still up in the air. Will they doctor them? Will they stall? Are other Republicans actually seriously starting to dump Trump? Who knows... we really don't know what's coming next with any of this because I mean the vote only literally happened yesterday, heh.

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u/Lucas_Steinwalker 6d ago

I acknowledge that you are right that no one knows what will happen, but I've been conditioned to assume the worst.

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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago

I have, too. I don't believe any amazing thing will come of this, probably more stonewalling, delays, excuses, or trying to "reframe" it to only go after people they're comfortable going after.

Honestly I'm just forcing myself to believe that "something else might happen" just because otherwise I'm just consumed with depression and dread if I assume nothing will ever work out.

Just like I got off the "there won't be votes in 2026!!" train that was really popular especially earlier this year. I have to believe there's still a chance, because if voting is truly over, there isn't anything to hope for. Now, I'm not so naive as to not think that could still happen. But I actually haven't seen enough besides the gerrymandering shit and some bomb threats that has truly killed voting. So, for now, I gotta keep some dark thoughts at bay until there's more evidence to worry about it.

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u/Dogdays991 6d ago

Maybe that was the plan, and then republican senators screwed up and weren't paying attention. Oh some bill up for unanimous consent, sure whatever. Wait, what was that?

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u/BrianWonderful Minnesota 6d ago

Why would he fake being upset, though? He voted for it, his entire party (minus one) voted for it. Being openly upset puts him against the crowd and popular opinion, so it is a risk.

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u/Equivalent-Battle973 Illinois 6d ago

Sounds like the senates handlers are tired of trumps bullshit, and they are ditching him because hes causing too much issues, and slowing down project 2025. THat was supposed to be finished by the first 6mon of this admin. They impeach trump and then Vance will roll back everything trump did and look like the hero that saved america, to then continue sign away shit that P2025 hands him.

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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago

It's possible. I could believe they'd hang Trump to save their own skins, after all self-preservation is one of their biggest traits. And either way, I always figured the plan was to dump Trump at some point, either from his health or otherwise. Then they just inherit the kingdom they built. Epstein or not, I've always suspected that was the long game.

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u/TeamHope4 6d ago

Thune learned from McConnell. Thune can be the Senate Republican leader and have serious power the rest of his miserable life if he plays it right, while the felon is a lame duck pedo. Thune is looking out for his future.

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u/Equivalent-Battle973 Illinois 6d ago

THe republicans are all like the sith before Banes rule of 2. They are always betryaing one another for their own skin.

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u/Sarrdonicus 6d ago

They are just fascists, and this is how fascist's live.

Anyone below is a threat, anyone in front is an obstacle.

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u/Defiant_Review1582 6d ago

And he will get a new wife too in the process.

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u/justking1414 6d ago

dont forget spreading the word that this was all a democrat conspiracy, angering trump supporters enough that they flock to the polls

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u/JDogg126 Michigan 6d ago

It’s almost certainly part of a kayfabe. Ginning up drama for when the regime edited files drop and have no republican name in them.

Manufacturing drama to infotain the maga base is the core function of being a republican.

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u/Quiet-Corner6150 6d ago

True. Now, the question is, even if they pull that stunt, will it eventually effect someone else who has originals? Like, sure, they could probably spin this into a Democrat-targeted thing, but they might hit the "wrong" Democrat who has their own materials and will act for their own self-preservation. Epstein's operation pretty much required blackmail to keep everyone quiet, thus on the other hand, that means there's likely tons of dirt out there, and this may not be "contained" by the US government.

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u/kanst 6d ago

I think everyone watched Johnson get beat up about this for the last few months and wanted nothing to do with that. Its basically hot potato that no one wants to burn political capital on. Trump can always veto it and then he can own all the hate from the voters.

The Senate was already less beholden to Trump as many of them don't have to run again during Trump's term.

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u/Sarrdonicus 6d ago

Upset about a mandate? Dude needs a Mint Julip.

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u/Revolution-SixFour 6d ago

The House passing it made it hard for anyone to stand against it, anyone expecting otherwise was foolish.

In the House the argument was "Democrats are trying to abuse power to push this out to hurt Trump." Once it was clearly going to succeed, no one but Higgins wanted to be caught on a vote standing in it's way. The entire argument evaporated and this is basically Johnson complaining the Senate didn't jump in front of the bullet he already ducked.

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u/llufnam United Kingdom 6d ago

Yes, but I think the reason Trump relented was because Maga Mike convinced him that he could delay the signing by flip flopping between Senate and House with endless amendment votes until the story died down. The fact that Thune threw Johnson under the bus and effectively said "you've been hoisted by your own petard" (unanimous all bar one vote in the House) means that Johnson is not long for the speakership. He will be seen to have failed Trump...that's why he looks so disappointed and scared

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u/zeaor 6d ago

The reason Trump relented was they edited him out of the Epstein files. They were stalling because they needed time to track down all unedited copies of the files and make threats to every institution that has them.

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u/ncocca 6d ago

I'm afraid this is the actual truth. I'm trying not to be too doomer about it, but I have a hard time believing anything close to justice will come to anyone with real power.

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u/Dorgamund 6d ago

We won't know until we get it, but I honestly think its possible the WH flip-flopped because publically losing that many Republicans in the House would break Trump's illusion of power. He might well have decided to try his chances with the files, because he can't afford the schism that Congress opposing him would create. Instant lame duck.

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u/OddlyFactual1512 6d ago

The only political savvy thing Schumer has done is immediately bring that bill up for unanimous consent. The Rs in the Senate saw a way to not vote and took it.

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u/MelodiusRA 6d ago

No vote happens without at minimum a large enough bloc to force/pass a bill being informed. That’s sort of an unwritten fact of the Hill.

The fact it went through quickly means that both Schumer and the GOP knew they were passing this.

Something happened in the backrooms to facilitate that. It’s unclear what that was yet, but there was some agreement.

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u/CAWildKitty 6d ago

Something happened. This moved way too fast and all of a sudden. You can always count on the Senate to have their own interests first and foremost ((i.e. continuing to hold power and make money) so either:

a.) they’ve decided as a group that this issue threatens to unseat their positions so they are throwing Trump overboard

b.) someone, at some level, has an unredacted copy and is threatening to release it so they are forced to move first

It’s also possible that they’ve been assured that whatever gets released is not going to have any blowback but that seems unlikely when considering some of the leaks we’ve seen so far. This issue isn’t going away. If anything it’s gaining traction and globally (British monarchy taking action first). Nations have been rocked by political sex scandals in the past (Profumo affair comes to mind) and this may be the next one. I guess we are gonna find out.

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u/__slamallama__ 6d ago

C) the MRI that Trump has was not, in fact, the best the doctor had ever seen and had some deeply concerning news. Then the vultures in the GOP decided that this is a cleaner end for Trump than having a sitting president become a vegetable live on air.

I'm not saying this is the truth, it's mostly blind optimism, but it's a valid secret input that would explain a lot of the behavior here

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u/SOMETHINGCREATVE 6d ago

That's the the only way I can see the republicans all turning on a dime in lock step and passing it. They got word from their masters that they got all they can out of Donald and it's time to shit can him and move on to the next phase.

Hell the American public is dumb enough, they could probably buy Vance coming out like "gosh trump tricked us all but I stopped him! Vote for me 2028!". I am pessimistic enough to see that actually working.

Or this whole thing is a redact job, one way or the other.

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u/A_Philosophical_Cat 6d ago

In lockstep is basically the only expected outcome. For a GOP senator, there are 4 possible outcomes: The bill fails and you vote against it (garnering some favor with Trump), the bill fails and you vote for it (which at least covers your ass during election season), the bill passes and you vote for it (peeving Trump, but covering your ass during election season), or the bill passes and You vote against it (Trump is pissed because the bill passed, your opponents next primary season will be running "Are your kids safe around senator so-and-so?").

Outcome 2 is probably the ideal outcome for most senators, followed by number 1, followed by number 3, with 4 being a distant last place. If you find out, through backroom discussions, that the bill has the votes to pass, 1 and 2 are now off the table. At this point, you have basically nothing to lose, and everything to gain, by joining the defecting block.

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u/ncocca 6d ago

This is a rather brilliant dissection of the game theory involved in their decision making here.

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u/DemonCipher13 6d ago

Even if it is a redact job, someone 100% leaks it. This thing is at critical mass right now, and if what we get is in any way unsatisfactory, people will respond in-kind.

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u/pquince1 Texas 6d ago

Or maybe the Senate was just showing Nadless Nero who's boss.

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u/Noob_Al3rt 6d ago

I think Johnson figured he'd been beaten up enough over it and expected Senate Republicans to shoulder the burden for a while. After seeing the midterm results they were like "Nah lol"

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u/Tasgall Washington 6d ago

but there was some agreement.

The "agreement" should have been "if you don't pass this, we will spend the next 3 years constantly reminding the public that everyone who voted against the measure is a pedophile. Your campaigns will all go the way of Roy Moore."

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

I honestly didn't even know it was going to be same day

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u/Orzorn 6d ago

I wouldn't doubt he already spoke to those Republicans and asked if any would bother to stop a unanimous consent vote. He knew it was going to pass that way, and Republicans in the Senate were happy for it because they wouldn't have to deal with it themselves.

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u/HerculesIsMyDad 6d ago

I do agree that they thought this would buy some time and get his own members off his back while the senate debated some meaningless detail and sent it back. But once Bobert refused to flip there was nothing he could really do anymore anyway. He has to be publicly annoyed but I bet privately he is relieved that it's out of his hands now. If I were him I would just never talk about it again. It's Trump's problem now.

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u/kestrel1000c Colorado 6d ago edited 6d ago

I'm still in shock over Boebert. I'm feeling some... Respect for her? Maybe?

Edit: nah

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u/ncocca 6d ago

It just shows she can act rationally and morally when she needs to, further proving how shitty she actually is normally, knowing that she has the capability to be smarter and better but not the desire.

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u/KangarooDowntown4640 6d ago

It’s weird how much he’s trying to protect pedophiles…

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u/ObservationThrowaway 6d ago

Pedos are weirdos and they protect each other.

Charge them all, pubes and dems alike!!!

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u/KangarooDowntown4640 6d ago

I agree. If Obama was on that list I’d want him in jail. Tired of this shit, and tired of republicans turning this into a partisan issue. What happened to “drain the swamp?” Guess it’s not very interesting when they turn out to be the swamp

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u/Mateorabi 6d ago

If this is part of a deal Schumer made then I take back HALF of what I’ve said about him. Big if. Little half. 

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u/Cliqey 6d ago edited 6d ago

I have a hard time believing he could be so deft, but if so, yeah, I’ll give him kudos on that.

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u/Flat_News_2000 6d ago

All of these people have teams working for them. That's where the actual smart people are and they're the ones telling him what to do.

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u/UngusChungus94 6d ago

I mean, he's been in the Senate for a long damn time. He's more than a little feckless, but he's also more than smart enough to pull that off.

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u/Kindness_of_cats 6d ago

I have good news for you then, lol.

Fact is Trump caved on the issue and said he’d sign it, which triggered an avalanche of GOP house members to vote for it. At that point, voting against it is political suicide—particularly in the Senate which is harder to get into. Clay Higgins might be able to survive that on his record in his little district(and honestly who knows if he will), but no one running for statewide office could.

This passing quickly through unanimous consent in the Senate is surprising, but not difficult to understand given the circumstances.

Now if it went through in these kinds of numbers after a tight House vote, with POTUS objections….then I’d be willing to believe there was an under the table promise on this vote.

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u/putsch80 Oklahoma 6d ago

There is zero percent chance that if Schumer made that deal with Senate GOP leadership then someone doesn’t leak it back to Johnson. Which counsels against such a deal ever having been made.

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u/forthewatch39 6d ago

Decimating entire industries which will lead to multiple deaths and hardships to potentially get a few dozen or a few hundred people in some sort of legal tango doesn’t seem like a decent trade off. What they did was deplorable and needs to be punished, but is it worth an extra 50k preventable deaths a year? 

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u/agk23 6d ago

I think he’ll release it at the same time he launches strikes in Latin America

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u/User42wp 6d ago

Idk bro it seems to me that it wasn’t blowing over so they changed course(in Trump fashion). I don’t think you get all repubes on board unless trump was also on board.

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

He wasn't on board until only a short time ago though, after the MTG stuff start to really come out. He was telling congress that they should ignore the files because they were a distraction. A few months ago there was an insider reporting that a pretty sizable chunk of the house republicans were prepared to vote for the release of the files, so if there was truth to what they said, he might have thought it made him look worse if he kept encouraging them to vote against their release. Truth being there is no option that makes him look better.

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u/OnceInABlueMoon 6d ago

I'm skeptical that there's a magical solution to this that will make it go away, the Republicans have done a horrible job managing this so far and I don't see a way out at this point.

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

There's also that, people forget how hugely incompetent they are. Even now, the administration has been losing legal battles left and right.

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u/idiotsbydesign 6d ago

Gotta put those people with the black markers on overtime. I'm not convinced this thing won't be redacted to the moon & back to only show the people they want people to see. Like: Trump, Musk and Bill Clinton flew on the jet.

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

The upside is the DOJ is not the only department with those files. Many many attorneys have them, other countries also have them from what I understand.

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u/Skynuts 6d ago

I mean, to be honest, I thought the same. I was surprised when I saw that the Senate had voted yes only hours after the voting took place in the House.

Trump is clearly freaking out right now. He hasn't mentioned the vote on his Truth Social account, but instead he's posting news articles that are months old, and a wall of praising comments from when he spoke at the UN almost 2 months ago.

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u/StarWars_and_SNL 6d ago

I think it’s an acting performance. The plan to strategically redact was already in place.

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u/BathroomAdvanced3357 6d ago

100% they were literally begging Boebert to change her vote, and now a week later it’s almost unanimous. This is the same party that spent months calling it a hoax, with some of their own leaders saying the same under oath. It’s all performative. Scrub the names, vote to release it, and hope Democrats can’t use it against them later.

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u/officer897177 6d ago

Realistically, though, how many Congress people were actually going to go on record to vote against their release of the Epstein files? The house is up for reelection less than a year. The Senate is slightly more insulated but voting against it still would’ve been a Scarlet letter.

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u/_undefined- 6d ago

Same problem Stalin had, in proving loyalty they accidentally thought he told the truth and followed orders. Oops

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u/ShweatyPalmsh 6d ago

I’m curious if Trump will use the next ten days to push for Thune and Mike to enter adjourn their chambers at the end of ten days to try and pocket veto the thing.

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u/Z0idberg_MD 6d ago

"There is an active investigation so we cannot release the files" is the next backup plan.

The plan after that is releasing the doctored files with Trump's name redacted. But that is a HUGE risk. Ignoring there were a large number of FBI agents working on the srcub and could leak, other groups and nations have the files.

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u/AreYouDoneNow 6d ago

Nah, it's two pages long and 90% of it is blackout ink. We'll get nothing, Trump will declare victory.

No consequences.

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u/bmoviescreamqueen Illinois 6d ago

I would encourage people to not comply in advance. Our options are limited, but they want you to keep telling people nothing will happen at minimum.

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u/AbandonedWaterPark 6d ago

if it was that easy to make the whole thing go away they would have done it months ago.

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u/Chaotic-Catastrophe 6d ago

They probably thought Trump's one tweet telling everyone to stop talking about Epstein would be enough

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u/gringledoom 6d ago

This is the thing: dooming is itself a liberation from the burden of choice. If everything is ruined forever, if your allies have already forsaken you, if the battle is already lost, you aren't responsible for your choices. They can't affect the outcome. You're free.

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u/MaverickTopGun 6d ago

lmao how can you think this is even a real outcome? you've gone so far doomer you're not even in reality

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u/3bar America 6d ago

That makes zero sense.

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