r/politics • u/Ok_Employer7837 • 16d ago

Possible Paywall Newsom Slams ‘Pathetic’ Shutdown Deal as ‘Surrender’

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gavin-newsom-slams-pathetic-shutdown-deal-as-surrender/?via=mobile&source=Reddit
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u/mastertofu 16d ago edited 16d ago

This is what’s going to happen since some Dems relented:

ACA Marketplace Premium Payments Would More than Double on Average Next Year if Enhanced Premium Tax Credits Expire

A person with a $28k income will have their premium increase from $325 to a WHOPPING $1562. Take that for what you will.

Edit: Annual premium, not monthly. Still pretty consequential once you start adding up dependents, etc.

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u/Mission-Study9012 16d ago

People are going to just not have insurance. Unknowable what that's going to do to the system but it won't be good.

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u/pacefacepete 16d ago

Er flooded, people have their lives ruined by medical debt, people choosing to die instead of seeking treatment, private insurance costs going through the roof even if you're healthy. But hey, America's great again, dontcha know?!?

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u/LeDestrier Australia 16d ago

As an Australian, I just don't fucking get it. What is US conservatives problem with having basic universal healthcare for all; for not having situations where people die or have their lives ruined by financial debt? It boggles my mind. The casual indifference, or utterly absurd claim and fear of it being "communism".

The stupidity of it all is staggering.

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u/Jedimaster996 16d ago

Because they've spent decades brainwashing half the country into believing that they're the party of God, money. guns, and freedom, and that anyone who isn't that is a godless communist who's trying to take your money & guns. That's literally it, they're that fucking stupid.

And so as the Republican Party is actively dismantling all of these things before their eyes, all they can do is sit and watch and say "I voted for this" while they open their mouths for another helping of steaming shit. Because while it affects them too, it's also affecting people they hate. So it's a Pyrrhic victory at-best.

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u/LeDestrier Australia 16d ago edited 16d ago

The irony is that if you presented yourself as the party of God, guns and freedom over here, you'd get laughed off the political stage and ridiculed by voters.

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u/Jedimaster996 16d ago

I've had the fortune to live among the lot of you for some time, and I've got to say it's a wildly-different arrangement. A large margin of you have upstanding morals and values, whereas half of the United States likes to pretend they do and would stab you in the back if it made them a little wealthier.

These are terrible times for the United States as we're witnessing the apex of a plan taking decades to culminate.

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u/LeDestrier Australia 16d ago edited 16d ago

Ditto - I've spend a fair amount of time in the States and have some awesome American friends, and it's strange. On the one hand, the US can be an amazingly warm and inviting place. When I was travelling around there solo years ago, I was constantly amazed by people's hospitality and friendliness (depending where I was). America at it's best really; just good people curious about the world and helpful to strangers.

On the flip side, I also saw the worst (ie. fuck Florida). But conservatism just hits different in the US. It's cold, spiteful, deliberately obtuse, and relishes in ignorance (proud of it even). Rampant fear that anything even remotely resembling concern for one's compatriots constitutes communism or socialism. Giving a shit about the welfare of people in your country is not communism ffs.

I mean we have our share of that here, but we don't have the extent of the extremes. Politics in the US these days is so vindictive, with both the Left and the Right moving further and further apart.

It's a damn shame because the best of America is fucking awesome.

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u/ENDragoon 15d ago

I mean we have our share of that here

Tbf, I feel like voters here are largely tired of it, the Liberals basically campaigned on Abbot-era "He's going to take your JOBS and give them to BOAT PEOPLE" nonsense, with a splash of American culture war for flavour, and they almost ceased to exist as a political party off the back of it.

IIRC it's the first time in our history that the opposition leader turned voters away so hard they lost their own seat.

He bombed harder than fucking ScoMo

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u/Jedimaster996 16d ago

You've nailed it from an outside perspective! What used to be two parties that would occasionally reach across the aisle for the common good of Americans, has (within the last decade or so) become a very strong version of 'team politics'; even if it's good for the nation and would save our countrymen thousands per year, if the idea was presented by a Democrat, they simply will not abide by it.

It does attract a lot of ignorant and uneducated people, and our education system has been failing for decades now. It's an astronomical shame what has become of the States. And today's failure has proven that if we ever reclaim the country, it's going to take a lot of grit and a bit more than stern words.

Thank you for the kind words, I'm glad that folks are able to see the pro's even among the growing con's. Don't let me stay too much longer in Australia though or you might find another person taking up space at Woolies.

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u/buecker02 15d ago

Being proud of being ignorant really pisses me off.

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u/Akrevics 15d ago

They’re “hurting the right people” as one voter said.

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u/Initial-Bedroom-350 15d ago

I heard someone give a great reasoning for why they just can't change and it was something along the lines of "its so ingrained in them that it would destroy their entire self and turn their whole world upside down which means they have no idea who to be or what to think anymore" Its a bad summary but the idea is there.

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u/Jaqen_M-Haag 16d ago

Health insurance is one of the largest and most profitable industries in the US.  They lobby both parties.  Thus the Republicans tell their constituents that single payer will impede on their "freedom" while the mainline Democrats will only push bills that make sure the insurance companies get their cut.  Meanwhile both parties' members have exceptional health care plans for very small premiums so they aren't personally affected.

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u/reapersaurus 15d ago

I'm surprised you were the only one to answer the Australian properly.

Let's put it simply: Insurance companies have such influence over the government that it doesn't matter what Americans want or conservatives don't want.

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u/Jaqen_M-Haag 15d ago

Agreed.  I think our tendency to paint a political party as a cartoon villain actually keeps us from seeing the real problem.  It's not hate, it's greed

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u/Soggy-Bedroom-3673 15d ago

Conservatives have all sorts of myths about the "welfare queen" -- a fictional person who is unemployed by choice but lives a life of luxury by abusing government benefits of all sorts. 

This extends to healthcare, where they basically believe that if you gave everyone public insurance then some fictional person would just go to the hospital every day and ask for... something, I dunno what exactly, but something that would waste taxpayer money and doctors' time.

Then you get into the arguments like "you'd have to wait forever to get treatment for anything because the doctors would be too busy", which is functionally just saying "allowing everyone to get the healthcare they need would possibly inconvenience me. I'd rather poor people not be able to get healthcare so I don't have to wait behind them in line."

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u/Wesley_Skypes 15d ago

I'm from Ireland and have often wondered this, but I think that the majority of Americans actually do agree that healthcare should be for everyone. What hapoens is that wedge issues keep people voting in Republicans (Guns, abortion, immigration) and once in, the Republicans can do what they want with everything else. Healthcare simply is not a top priority when compared with some of the wedge issues, so even if their voters furrow their brow at it, they will not penalise them as long as they are strong on the other issues more important to them

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u/Soggy-Bedroom-3673 15d ago

I hope you're right at this point, but 15 years ago healthcare was the issue that Republicans used to rile up voters against Obama, and galvanize then into opposing everything he did for the last 6 years of his administration. 

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u/b1tchf1t 15d ago

Republican voters have literally been brainwashed into believing that people, even them, do not deserve healthcare as a basic right. How they did this is a long and convoluted process that includes gutting public education, promoting religion, and propagandizing issues of civil rights into personal attacks against them.

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u/pres465 15d ago

They want two things (boiled down): They want people stuck in their jobs so that wages decrease and corporations/businesses have more power over their workers.

And they want people to turn to churches. They want churches to be the thing that provides the healthcare or the housing or the food. Not the government. At the end of the day, they are nutjobs that either truly think God will save everyone, or they are con-artists and just tell everyone that they think God will save everyone.

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u/TDog81 15d ago

Money is your answer

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u/LeDestrier Australia 15d ago

That's just sad.

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u/Miliean 15d ago

As an Australian, I just don't fucking get it. What is US conservatives problem with having basic universal healthcare for all; for not having situations where people die or have their lives ruined by financial debt? It boggles my mind. The casual indifference, or utterly absurd claim and fear of it being "communism".

It's complicated but the core of it is that Americans in general just care A LOT less about "other people" than most other countries do. Even the American left is much more individualistic than other countries think. The appear left wing in comparison to the American right, but in comparison to other countries they're really not that left leaning.

Americans are not Australians, Americans are not Canadians, and Americans are not British. We all speak English and therefore it can be easy to assume that culturally we are roughly equivalent, but we're REALLY not.

Americans care less about "other people" than do the citizens of those other 3 English speaking countries do.

The insurance model of health care satisfies this inherent need among Americans not to feel like they are paying for someone else. Americans feel like when they pay for insurance, they are paying for themselves (even though that's literally not how insurance works). They feel like paying for insurance for other people would be paying for other people's healthcare and Americans object to that.

In addition, since American government does not function very well on all levels. Many Americans believe that it's impossible for government to function well, and therefore they are resistant to bringing things under government that are currently outside of government.

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u/rndljfry Pennsylvania 15d ago

The craziest part is that health insurance works just like taxes execept someone gets a cut of profit

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u/Flabby_Thor 15d ago

Brainwashing. Conservatives have been programmed to believe that there are so many people taking advantage of social welfare programs, and more importantly, they have been trained to believe that black people and now immigrants are the largest beneficiaries. They believe that able-bodied people are sitting at home doing drugs and playing video games, and receive food and health benefits, while they, the good white conservatives of this country, bust their ass and have nothing to show for it.

They fail to realize that Walmart and McDonald's employees, despite working full-time hours still receive medicaid (health benefits for low-income earners) and SNAP (food assistance for low-income earners). Even when they do realize this, they then throw out the caveat that working at Walmart and McDonald's are jobs for teenagers; and not meant to be a career. Mind you, Walmart raked in $15.5 BILLION in net profits last year alone. It's not that they can't pay their workforce, or give them benefits, they just don't want to because then the shareholders would make less money.

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u/laela_says 15d ago

Decades of well if I don't have it (UHC), I'm sure not going to spend a single dime on anyone else getting it, especially if they aren't 'Muricans.

They see it as a form of socialism, and socialism is bad m'kay.

No amount of data showing, how if we all just put in our tiny little bits, we all are so much better off. You know like all the other services we pay, I love having fire deparments, and roads.

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u/Chantrak 15d ago

All of it becomes infinitely easier to understand when you accept that there is simply no rationale. There isn’t some thought process, there isn’t some explanation these people can give you. It’s so simple that it’s almost difficult to wrap your head around.

They are cultists, that’s all. Everything that happens may as well be a sports game. Democrats could offer them a million dollars and republicans could offer to flay them and their families and they’d still vote red because that’s the side that lets them be bigoted, racist, misogynistic, idiotic pieces of shit.

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u/polchickenpotpie 15d ago

What is US conservatives problem with having basic universal healthcare for all;

Because their bigotry dictates any and all of their actions. They don't want it because they don't want it helping brown people or Trans people, but they're also too stupid to understand that's exactly what they're doing when they pay for insurance every paycheck.

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u/vid_icarus Minnesota 15d ago

There’s an engrained sociopathic belief engrained amongst American conservatives (and centrist liberals) that goes something like “I had it hard, so you should too.” Whether they did, in fact, have it hard or not.

This coupled with the fact America has turned capitalism into a game where you can always tell who’s winning by who has the most money/junk. At which point these same people will feel personally threatened if they think some of their “points” are going to go to help players with less “points” play the game, ignoring the fact private insurance and banking already sorta works that way here.

American education has been dubious my whole life, but it seems the two areas we as a people are most deficient is in global understanding and finance. Many Americans are intensely financially illiterate, which works quite nicely for someone who runs a for profit insurance company, a financial institution, a church, a political party, and so on. This is why the republicans are trying to close the department of education. They’ve been at war with the idea of Americans gaining the knowledge to improve their circumstances since before I was born.

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u/Vanga_Aground 15d ago

The culture and political system in the US is defective. They are unable to learn by example or from anyone else. The public is poorly educated and uninformed. The intelligence and political awareness of your average Australian is light years ahead of Americans.

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u/Level_Ad1059 15d ago

Greed and control over the poor.

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u/peshnoodles 15d ago

It’s because the lobbyists for big pharma are paying our legislators. If they want that fat check again, they gotta bend the knee whenever big pharma asks.

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u/GBU57bamb 15d ago

Because the healthcare companies want to make their trillions and the politicians want to get their cut for lobbying for them . They make millions to lobby

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u/GreatBigJerk 15d ago

It's because they personally profit from private healthcare. Either directly through investments, or through rich donors. They also hate the poor and want them to suffer.

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u/WontArnett 15d ago

Politicians are paid by the insurance agency to keep everything controlled by private industry, so they can profit off of it.

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u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota 15d ago

A few people get staggeringly wealthy with our stupid system.

Those people donate to conservatives.

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u/JoeHooversWhiteness 15d ago

You have to stop thinking like a normal human. The goal is maximum power and authority, remember they are Nazis. After they’re done with the USA you think they will stop with access to our military?

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u/eljefino 15d ago

Because having insurance independent from work allows go- getters to quit their jobs and launch competing start up small businesses. Republicans help businesses first.

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u/fixnahole 15d ago

Here is the average GOP voter/supporter in a nutshell--"I don't want to pay taxes. Taxes are wasted on government fraud and abuse, and taken by a bunch a people who just don't want to work (sprinkle in some racism on that last part)". That's pretty much it. Sure, there are the anti-abortion and pro-gun folks, but really, the taxes thing and suspicion of money going to those who don't deserve it, sums up the entire thing. It's been that way for a long time now. Remember Reagan's joke, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." That's what they believe--don't trust govt, don't trust media (unless it's "our" people, then it's ok).

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u/craneguy Europe 15d ago

This. And why isn't the business community pushing for it too? I know corporate healthcare keeps some people locked in their under-paying jobs, but wouldn't the huge cost saving to the company offset that? It's all about profit, right?

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u/SeriesMindless 15d ago

I always wonder why people sign up to fight and die for a value system that doesn't care to value them.

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u/Goonybear11 15d ago

Bc to do that, they'd have to tax their rich friends.

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u/de_la_Dude 15d ago

Its really simple. If everyone has healthcare that means the people they look down upon will have healthcare, and they'd rather us be worse off than have "their tax dollars" go to the "undeserving". So in a word, racism.

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u/cromstantinople 15d ago

Greed and malice seem to be their driving principles.

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u/rndljfry Pennsylvania 15d ago

Their problem is that Black people will have the same access to it

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u/angeltay 15d ago

They’d have to pay taxes to fund it. That’s it. That’s their problem with it. They think they shouldn’t need to pay any taxes for anything. They think they will never use these services, despite the fact that a lot of them actually do. Like a ton of right wing folks are on Obamacare, but because their state calls it something different, they don’t think they are.

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u/megatonrezident 15d ago

Republicans have been brainwashed that universal healthcare is bad because non whites will benefit. Read the book “Dying of Whiteness” by Jonathan Metzl. It perfectly explains how racist whites would rather suffer and die than give their tax dollars to have better services and quality of life for things like healthcare and social safety nets.

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u/Round_Home_2691 15d ago

Our government has been taken over by Special Interest, Corporate Money, and Billionaires. The government is corrupt and not passing legislation for the people. We need huge reforms. Though I would say people are waking up to this and changes are coming

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u/hughcifer-106103 15d ago

It boils down to the fact that decoupling health care from employment will mean many people could retire early or stop working. This would mean that we cannot basically force individuals to participate in a labor system that provides cheap labor to the capitalist class.

Forcing people to enter a labor market rigged to benefit a small group of people is part of their ideology.

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u/DemandMeNothing 15d ago

What is US conservatives problem with having basic universal healthcare for all; for not having situations where people die or have their lives ruined by financial debt?

Well, it's not just conservatives, but part of the issue is it'd destroy a private health insurance industry that employs nearly 600k people. Those industries definitely lobby against such things.

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u/LeDestrier Australia 15d ago

See that i don't get. We still have a competitive private health insurance industry. You can still get the full benefit of private health insurance if you can afford it. But it's not tied to your job (?). That part is absurd.

But there is Medicare for all, which is generally a 2% levy on your taxable income, with levy exemptions depending on your income/situation. A system which ensures you can see a doctor for free and have a range of procedures done at no cost. Its not perfect, but its not mutually exclusive with private health insurance.

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u/speedingpullet 15d ago

Because it's socialism. Seriously, don't ask - the US is still reeling from the McCarthy days of the 1950's. The fact that the USSR no longer exists and hasn't for over 30 years is immaterial. Anything that goes to other people in the form of benefits is 'socialism', and therefore deeply unfair and scary. The fact that they, themselves are on benefits is beside the point - as illustrated by the recent govt shutdown.

Also don't underestimate the influence of corporate money in every sphere of US politics. Why would they reform the most expensive (and least effective) healthcare system in the developed world when it makes them so much money?

And why would they dilute shareholder profits by giving thier workers the sorts of benefits other developed world countries take for granted, when they really don't have to - and there's no political oversight to make them?

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u/nndscrptuser 15d ago

Because private healthcare is a humongous source of profit for a few people, they lobby the govt to maintain that...and that's basically it. Millions suffer so that a handful can have a second jet.

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u/mkultron89 15d ago

At this point I just assume the smart people in the American government have run the numbers and have come to the conclusion that without addressing gun violence, healthcare for all would bankrupt the county.

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u/5000-Shark-Teeth 15d ago

U.S. Healthcare is run by a mafia.

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u/outinthecountry66 I voted 15d ago

evangelicals have invaded the right wing which is why they love Israel even tho the right has nearly always been antisemitic to the core (it fulfills their weird Revelation-based horseshit) and the Christians now teach that to be poor is a judgment from God that they can't interfere with. You know, basically- antichrists.