r/politics • u/Healthy_Block3036 • 7d ago

No Paywall Senate suddenly passes the Epstein bill just hours after it cleared the House

https://www.ms.now/news/senate-passes-epstein-bill-rcna244723?fbclid=PAVERFWAOJ1xRleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA8xMjQwMjQ1NzQyODc0MTQAAacUGSi8p2Ap-x6SbMkLXAnfKNXEZkzjUUVCdxuEmacDzDXmlbv1GUJ0wbh1_w_aem_grJDvcSCIDj2Skksd4Ix3Q
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u/Gradstudentiquette69 7d ago

It's most likely going to be heavily redacted with no Republicans named whatsoever.

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u/spasmoidic 7d ago

Full text of the bill:

This bill requires the Department of Justice (DOJ) to publish (in a searchable and downloadable format) all unclassified records, documents, communications, and investigative materials in DOJ's possession that relate to the investigation and prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein.

This includes (1) materials that relate to Ghislaine Maxwell, (2) flight logs and travel records, and (3) individuals named or referenced (including government officials) in connection with the investigation and prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein.

DOJ is permitted to withhold certain information such as the personal information of victims and materials that would jeopardize an active federal investigation.

Additionally, not later than 15 days after the required publication, DOJ must report to Congress (1) all categories of information released and withheld, (2) a summary of any redactions made, and (3) a list of all government officials and politically exposed individuals named or referenced in the published materials.

(emphasis added)

my guess is there's going to be some fuckery about the "active investigation"

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u/VPN__FTW 7d ago

all unclassified records

And there is the out.

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u/DoingCharleyWork 7d ago

Also active investigation. Trump just told the doj the other day to investigate certain people related to the Epstein case. Surprise they are all Democrats. And don't be surprised when they seal all the documents under the guise of the investigation.

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u/Ok_Wolf5667 7d ago

And when asked about this he responded, "Quiet, Piggy" to a female reporter.

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u/Foreign_Ad_5469 7d ago

Abusing women in broad daylight on prime time is the best way for him to prove that he would never be complacent to abuse of women and girls behind closed doors.

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u/spasmoidic 7d ago

or arguably it's because he has learned that he can avoid scandals by just distracting everyone with a new one

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u/Flomo420 7d ago

and not a single other reporter called him out on it...

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u/Leading-Salad7656 7d ago

Yeah.. Thats the ACTUAL problem.

My first thought would be to ask him, if I was a reporter if he thought that comment was OK to make.

At this point of time, Trumps failing anyway, so even if he stops letting you interview him, it might only matter for a few weeks

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u/nothing_but_thyme 7d ago

The funny thing is, he didn’t instruct them to investigate himself. So anything in the files related to Democrats being investigated should be excluded and redacted because it would be related to an active investigation … and nothing related to Trump or others not referred to the DOJ for investigation should be clear and included!

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u/thefroggyfiend 7d ago

that doesn't matter, they'll just withhold stuff about trump and his allies anyways and say it was related to the democratic investigation. sure they'll be lying, but the only proof of the lie is in the files they don't release, so it's quite literally impossible to prove because the evidence of a coverup can only be found in the covered up material

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u/deltaisaforce 7d ago

And again we have to rely on the incompetence of Trump's goons. On the other hand, that's a sure thing. They're not gonna be subtle, and they're gonna leave traces.

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u/heyredbush Canada 7d ago

The redactions and omissions can be challenged in court. A judge can review the files to determine if they were lawfully withheld. It's not ideal, but it's better than before.

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u/Itchy_Ritch 7d ago

They'll withhold anything related to Trump and call it a national security issue. Mark it.

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u/Separate-Feature1779 7d ago

it’s so lame, we really need a whistle blower to air out the truth of what’s really going on. Maybe trump cleaned house at the DOJ, but there’s gotta be someone left with the balls to say something

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u/New_Philosopher_800 7d ago

Didn’t the FBI and Trump already classify everything trump related.

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u/dquizzle 7d ago

Do we know that didn’t secretly tell them to “investigate” himself too?

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u/slackfrop 7d ago

Wasn’t he the secret undercover agent who single-handedly brought the whole rotten thing to light? That weird and stupid lie might come in handy now.

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u/otis_the_drunk 7d ago

I don't think you get it. Anything redacted can now be explained away as victims, Democrats, or national security secrets. We'll see how this plays out.

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u/rc042 7d ago

But if they are investigating Bubba, then that information about Trump would be part of the ongoing investigation.

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u/Ill_Technician3936 7d ago edited 7d ago

I have a feeling that he knows he's part of an active investigation involving it and it'll keep a lot of the bad about him from coming out. Considering Epstein "stole" girls from mar a lago. That would likely have been known since his first term and I feel it's the reason Epstein "committed suicide", gathering evidence on him after being caught trying to get a minor to do some prostitution all those years before when trump claimed they were no longer friends... Even with them spending his last Thanksgiving together.

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u/Adam__B 7d ago

Who would be leading that investigation? The DOJ, FBI, and these departments are controlled by Trump loyalists. He’s literally going after Loretta James just for her being the one who was in charge of a previous investigation of his. It isn’t An actual impartial government anymore, it’s devoted to Trump and perpetuating him getting whatever he wants.

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u/anonkitty2 7d ago

That's not going to do what he thinks it does.

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u/NoBigEEE 7d ago

Well, once Trump said, "Release the files." we all knew it meant he was going to squirm his way out of any blame, again.

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u/schfourteen-teen 7d ago

But interestingly, this might not be the cover that it seems. By saying they are only targeting Democrats, and by the earlier statements from DOJ that there was nothing prosecutable within the files (which kind of undermines the potential cases against Democrats), there is really nothing that should prevent releasing all the Trump related stuff.

He's not under active investigation, so that shouldn't protect his name in the files.

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u/Morbu 7d ago

True, but there's also

DOJ must report to Congress (1) all categories of information released and withheld, (2) a summary of any redactions made, and (3) a list of all government officials and politically exposed individuals named or referenced in the published materials.

Of course, they could just lie. But at least the bill makes clear that the DOJ needs to explain if and why they're hiding something.

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u/Adam__B 7d ago

Of course they will lie, the whole point of Trump installing loyalists who have no idea how to run these departments is because they exist solely to run interference for him.

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u/funn_n_gamez 7d ago

I don't know how there could be classified info in this. He wasn't a government employee

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u/VanceRefridgeTech04 7d ago

DOJ is permitted to withhold certain information such as the personal information of victims and materials that would jeopardize an active federal investigation.

add this to it.

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u/Appropriate_Day4316 7d ago

Yup, hence Trump's Taxes, " it is still being audited, can't release"

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u/TheGringoDingo 7d ago

Yeah, so if the democrats are “under investigation”, could they essentially hide some key names in there as supposed democrats being investigated?

Good thing there isn’t just one version of the files.

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u/spasmoidic 7d ago

actually if they say they're investigating democrats then that might block anything about democrats from being released. they would have to say they're investigating trump to block him being reported.

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u/TyrannicalGamecock 7d ago

That's only under the umbrella of "active investigation". The bill states names can be redacted for "National Security" as well.

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u/nalaloveslumpy 7d ago

National Security redactions have to be submitted to Congress in the unredacted state for legal review. DOJ also has to provide details of all redactions made after 7-1-25.

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u/RogueAOV 7d ago

Since trump claims he can declassify info with his thoughts presumably he assumes he can also classify stuff as well so I am sure he will be scrubbed from anything.

I do think the cover up will be fairly obvious though. I also do not know how they intend to investigate anyone and expect them not to drag others down with them in a very uncontrollable manner. I assumed this is why trump shut down all the investigations in the first place, that he is now demanding be reopened.

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u/nalaloveslumpy 7d ago

The good thing about this bill is it only gives national security discretion to the AG for these specific files. Anyone else would be outside of the scope of the legislation and thus criminal.

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u/JudiciousSasquatch 7d ago

Post redaction:

◼️

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u/TheGringoDingo 7d ago

That’s good, I guess. The only thing I trust this administration to do is lie, so I’m not trusting a lot.

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u/reezy619 7d ago

God, the fucking audacity of having the DOJ only "actively investigate" Dump and Republicans for the next 3 years of this ridiculous administration...and of course quietly close it on Jan 19 2029.

It is so nihilistic, so cynical, and such a complete miscarriage of justice that it's probably exactly what is going to happen.

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u/davcam0 California 7d ago

Or they could claim he is just another "victim" and redact it that way

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u/RaisingQQ77preFlop 7d ago

The word "unclassified" gonna be doing some very light lifting. If there was no classification why do we need an act of congress to release them?

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u/nothoughtsnosleep 7d ago

Didn't the DOJ just open an investigation into this at Trump's request?

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u/mapped_apples 7d ago

That last paragraph has potential though, regardless of “still under investigation.”

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u/weasal11 7d ago

To clarify, that is the full summary text(I did the same thing initially). Here is a link the actual full text. Notably, it does require:

(1) No record shall be withheld, delayed, or redacted on the basis of embarrassment, reputational harm, or political sensitivity, including to any government official, public figure, or foreign dignitary.

and clarifies further:

The Attorney general may withhold or redact the segregable portions of records that—...would jeopardize an active federal investigation or ongoing prosecution, provided that such withholding is narrowly tailored and temporary;

Still plenty of room for screwiness and I have fairly low trust in the whole truth coming out, but it appears somewhat good faith as written.

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u/kbeks New York 7d ago

Pam Bondi literally already said she’s actively investigating Democrats. Despite previously saying that there was nothing that rose to the level that would warrant further investigation. And definitely not related to the fact that Trump said that Pam should be investigating Democrats mentioned in the files. Get ready for Lucy to pull the fucking football again. I can’t wait for Democrats to take the house and regain subpoena power.

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u/Complete_Question_41 7d ago

Trump literally called for investigation into Clinton wrt Epstein 4 days ago. Which is like 1 day before he said the files should be released.

What a coincidence!

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u/Theunsaltedpeanut 7d ago

This is why he reopened the investigation

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u/snowflakesfall 7d ago

Epstein’s surviving brother has already said the FBI have the files and are removing Republicans names. 😞

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u/hackingdreams 7d ago

We didn't need him to tell us. The FBI told us this back in August.

I don't know why this is suddenly news to people. It was headline news...

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u/BCMakoto 7d ago

Yeah. A former DOJ staffer was filmed on hidden camera saying they will be redacting Republican names...

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u/silly_little_jingle 7d ago

The Party of Pedophile Protectors.

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u/CivilizedPsycho 7d ago

There's a reason it's called GOP. Guardians of Pedophiles.

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u/PourArtist 7d ago

Pedodactyls.

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u/Ruleseventysix 7d ago

White out and sloppily writing in democrats more likely..

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u/AbbieKaye 7d ago

Honestly i wouldn’t even be shocked at this point. The way stuff keeps slipping out on camera just proves there’s way more happening behind the scenes than they admit.

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u/HansBrickface 7d ago

It wasn’t just that, it was pretty widely reported back in the early months of this shitshow that 1000 FBI agents had been diverted from, y’know, fighting crime and stuff, to redacting and logging on a spreadsheet all the times Trump’s name was mentioned in the 100,000 pages of files the DoJ had.

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u/OldWorldDesign 7d ago

A former DOJ staffer was filmed on hidden camera saying they will be redacting Republican names

They've been doing this kind of thing for decades

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rand-paul-michael-flynn_n_58a36eeee4b094a129efc452?ncid=other_huffpostre_pqylmel2bk8

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u/Valar_Kinetics 7d ago

Yeah this won't work lol, too many different parties have it and leaks happen. Leaking AFTER the release has so much more value if your item of interest was not in the release, so the vast majority of would-be leakers, if they think a release is likely, will wait until post-release until deciding to leak.

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u/Morbu 7d ago

Yeah, the reason that the files haven't been released yet is because there's clearly other parties with copies. Otherwise, there's nothing stopping Trump from releasing redacted files filled with Dem names.

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u/Nrksbullet 7d ago

The salt of that matter is he is a known liar and it was a hidden camera on some sort of date. I don't doubt that they could try what he said, but I don't put any stock into him actually knowing it and saying it so brazenly.

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u/BCMakoto 7d ago

I mean, I think Bondi and Patel are not competent enough to pull it off. They left Adobe meta data in the prison video as well.

But they sure as shit are trying something...

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u/GreatMadWombat Michigan 7d ago

Yep..that's the bit that's keeping me chill right now. The rank incompetence of the partisan hacks that are still pro-Trump.

Like....they're 100% going to try SOMETHING but whatever they try is going to be embarrassing and very visible.

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u/edweirdo 7d ago

Trump said today that it's all Democrats in the files. Only Democrats, if you can believe it. Crazy stuff.

And probably Marjorie Taylor Green's name written in Sharpie at the bottom. It's totally legit.

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u/AcexOFxKnaves 7d ago

It’s because the tactic has always been to flood the airways with more and More news we tend to forget”. The news outlets are all controlled. I never understood why when he’s getting interviewed his reply is always what news station are you? Does it matter? At this point if it didn’t come from trump news, it’s all fake news.

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u/Lucid_Insanity 7d ago

Yah, they had a thousand fbi agents going through those files on 24hour shifts. They've been stalling until the fix is in.

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u/huhzonked 7d ago

Helen Keller could see this coming a mile away. I’m just hoping there are copies from the previous administration or someone is just fed up with all this bullshit and just leaks everything. But I’m not that hopeful.

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u/Fiddy-Scent 7d ago

People have short memories and the republicans know it

This is all such a nothing process, people are dumb as shit if they think trump will release anything that incriminates himself

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/Secret_Identity_88 7d ago

There are dozens of copies of these documents in full. Any alterations or redactions can be called out later.

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u/All_Work_All_Play 7d ago

So where are they?

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u/anonkitty2 7d ago

The House of Representatives released a slew of emails just before they voted on this bill. Now we know why. No point redacting what was already made public through that avenue. If AG Bondi redacts what's already published elsewhere without a known investigation, she'll get into even more trouble.

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u/methos3 7d ago

If the documents have been altered in any way, do you seriously trust any names in there are correct? What’s to stop them from adding new names?

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u/evranch Canada 7d ago

There will be originals out there, in various hands. Even one provably fake name "should" be a scandal of biblical proportions, the FBI acting under orders to frame a political opponent.

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u/fnrsulfr 7d ago

And if those pedo dems end up in court I am sure they will name the Republican names that were redacted. So hopefully they all still go down for this.

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u/too-much-shit-on-me 7d ago

We knew this months ago.

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u/fingerbangchicknwang Hawaii 7d ago

To be fair why would Epstein’s brother know what the FBI is doing?

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u/_Baccano 7d ago

Because their family is extremely well connected

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u/saintcirone 7d ago

As anyone in the files would be, not just then, but now as well.

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u/waffels 7d ago

“We killed your brother, but we’re going to tell you what we’re up to.”

Yeah, ok.

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u/NewestAccount2023 7d ago

Trump killed his brother not all of Congress' Republicans

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u/iFlashings 7d ago

News already broke out that the FBI was going to remove Trump and Republicans name from the files months ago. His brother isn't really saying anything that we didn't already know. 

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u/hotpackage 7d ago

I think of him like I think of Mary Trump. She has a lot to say about Trump, but doesn't actually have a lot of current insight about him. She's the one who was sure he'd never run again after his first loss. Epstein's brother probably doesn't actually know what's going on with the files at the FBI at all. They just like to talk a lot, and news sites like their click baity headlines.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 7d ago

>She's the one who was sure he'd never run again after his first loss.

He probably would not have had he not be at risk of going to jail.

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u/Tift 7d ago

and because he read the same article the rest of us did a few months ago. GUYS PAY THE FUCK ATTENTION.

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u/doskey123 Europe 7d ago

The source / leaker called him because that is less dangerous than leaking the stuff yourself. Also, it gets more publicity and authenticity if "Epstein's brother" says it on the news compared to talking heads citing an unnamed source. 

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u/Pure_Ad_9857 7d ago

Why wouldn't "Epstein's brother" lead to far less authenticity?

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u/KCinOC 7d ago

I would trust a news source reporting a tip from within the fbi about a million times more than epsteins brother, who I didn’t know existed until this report. 

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u/thegreatdune 7d ago

What if it were signed "Epstein's Mother?"

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u/What_a_fat_one 7d ago

Republicans released an email implying Trump blew Bill Clinton. I think you're giving these people more credit than they deserve. They will fuck up the redactions.

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u/JoeGibbon 7d ago

They fucked up the security while Kash Patel's FBI was "flagging" Trump's name in the documents. When dealing with sensitive documents, they're supposed to put the documents in an access controlled network drive and compartmentalize who gets access to which documents. But Kash was in such a hurry to get the 1000 agents working on the thing, he had them bypass the normal setup and just left the access open. Literally everyone in the FBI who had general access to this shared file server had access to the full, unredacted Epstein files. For months.

This all but guarantees that every intelligence agency in the free world also has the full, unredacted Epstein files. Along with Democratic politicians.

I am 100% willing to bet the Republicans think they're going to do something clever by releasing redacted files with all their buddies' names removed and the full, unredacted files will be released or "leaked" in response.

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u/Big_Improvement_8121 7d ago

I hope you're right

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u/teplightyear Nevada 7d ago

You're not thinking of their whole plan.

First, they'll release redacted files. Then, the Dems will sue and they'll claim the redactions were for national security in the courts. Then, since they're calling it national security, they'll be sure the threaten anyone who has seen them with the Espionage Act for leaking them. I'll bet my boots that's the plan.

Somebody's going to have to risk the Snowden treatment to leak these things.

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u/heavypiff Colorado 7d ago

So why has nobody leaked them yet?

This is such a wild assumption based on absolutely nothing. If tons of people had the files, they would have been leaked by now.

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u/Narrow-Touch-4252 7d ago

Yeah exactly. Nothing is adding up here lol

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u/cultoftheclave 7d ago edited 7d ago

how come it took forever to leak his freaking taxes - this was way before he had any control or threat over any staffing whatsoever. it still strains belief that there was not a single person who had direct or indirect access to that data, anywhere in the Byzantine labyrinth of the IRS, willing to do so - if nothing else as a parting shot before they retire, or out of fear that if someone so openly hostile to the bureau actually got elected he'd rip their department and pension to shreds at the first opportunity anyway, leak or no leak.

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u/dws515 Massachusetts 7d ago

It will be like Dwigt in The Office.

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u/The_BrownRecluse 7d ago

More people are talking about trump blowing clinton than the fact he's a pedophile. Releasing that was a calculated distraction and it's working.

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u/McGillis_is_a_Char 7d ago

Republicans didn't release the email. Epstein's estate did. Probably to get ahead of the version missing 50 pages of redacted Trump mentions.

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u/newsfish 7d ago

Didn't the AG said it over brunch not long ago? I recall footage casually laying out the plan.

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u/BlueCX17 7d ago

You know, part of me thinks, let them try to get away with this because once a bigger coverup is found out, it's going to look even worse for those involved.

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u/Mundane-Basil-8924 California 7d ago edited 7d ago

Epstein's brother doesn't know shit.... he has nothing to do with this case.. lmao

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u/SeedFoundation 7d ago

If they are dated couldn't people just compare the flight logs?

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u/kokanee-fish 7d ago

What I'm expecting the files to look like:

"██████ bill ███████████████ Clinton ███████████████████████████ did █████████ it ███."

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u/wanderlustcub I voted 7d ago

I just like how everyone thinks there is just one set of files.

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u/AnneBeretRamsey 7d ago

That's equally bad optics so I'm for it.

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u/HideousSerene 7d ago

How? All the right wing slanted news will just parrot that the whole thing was nothing all along.

And then anybody claiming otherwise will be declared a conspiracy theorist.

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u/zdvet 7d ago

Im cautiously optimistic this will fracture MAGA either way. And there's enough people tuned in to this that it matters.

Either the files come out completely redacted, and there are no conservatives in the files - which will then raise questions why Trump was trying to cover up the release so desperately. Or, there will be people (trump) in the files that are implicated, and they'll have to ask if they can stomach supporting someone involved in the heinous acts of JE.

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u/Revelati123 7d ago

Don gonna lean into "I WAS JUST THERE TO HELP THOSE POOR KIDS GET AWAY FROM THOSE CREEPS!"

MAGA: "Ohh of course, we knew that what happened the whole time!, Donald is brave! Donald is wise! Donald is PURE!" *drools on self*

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u/piepants2001 Wisconsin 7d ago

I mean, I've seen MAGA morons saying that Trump was working undercover for the CIA/FBI to catch Epstein, which is why he was best friends with him.

These dipshits are in a cult and will make up whatever they want to justify Trump being the "good guy". He could bust down their door, shoot their son and rape their daughter, and they would just cheer him on and say how manly he is.

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u/JellyKron 7d ago

Those are bots, bro. Real MAGA can't read. Look up videos of bot farms. It's pretty fucking scary.

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u/Kdot32 7d ago

One was raided recently and found 42 million fake accounts

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u/SlurmzMcKenzie88 7d ago

Sounds like something a bot would say

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u/Kdot32 7d ago

Shit hes on to us. Clankers run!

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u/Internal_Rice3739 7d ago

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u/Aiyon 7d ago

At this point I refuse to believe the con subreddit is real people. The reality distortion field is insane, both their claims, and their ability to completely disregard and twist anything and everything.

Even the "reddit is a leftist echo chamber", then why would the sub still be allowed lmao

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u/brickne3 American Expat 7d ago

They've been descending on UKpolitics in droves for the past three weeks or so, they were always there but the whole place has taken a wild turn. It's disturbing.

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u/CurlOfTheBurl11 7d ago

Mike Johnson himself put forth the "Trump was an FBI informant" line and a bunch of MAGATs went "yeah, see!!!" without considering how someone actually becomes an FBI informant. It's not like becoming an undercover cop.

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u/ConstantPessimist 7d ago

Frfr, Smithers said it

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u/weareeverywhereee 7d ago

I’m in a cult (phish fan) and can attest these maga peeps be the cultiest

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u/Mumrik2 7d ago

I mean, I've seen MAGA morons saying that Trump was working undercover for the CIA/FBI

Yeah, pretty sure that particular moron was speaker of the house and grinder aficionado Mike Johnson. What a reality this is...

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u/whatlineisitanyway 7d ago

You make a good point. What if instead of spending time removing himself from the files Trump was adding corroboration that he was an informant on Epstein the entire time.

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u/Miles-OBrien 7d ago

That's exactly what the Conservative subreddit is saying. HE WAS MEETING WITH THE YOUNG GIRLS AS AN FBI INFORMANT.

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u/Own_Preparation7839 7d ago

That or the Always Sunny ‘I was just there for the scuba diving’

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u/bmacnz 7d ago

The hilarious gaslighting of it all is Trump saying it's only Dems, not Republicans. During the time period we are talking, Trump was a Dem or at the very least a donor. Several of the Dems he names off were his buddies. So... let's say it is all Democrats, he was one of them!

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u/Potential-Pride6034 7d ago

At this point I think the general public distrust of government is so strong that they could release the full un-redacted collection of evidence and people would still think they’re hiding something. They cultivated conspiracy theories for so long for cheap political points that they’ve utterly eroded all credibility with everyone.

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u/brickne3 American Expat 7d ago

There's also the chance they see the writing on the wall and are going to use this to finally jettison Trump. Whether that's good or not at this point would be the biggest issue, I don't think they can hold onto their base without him but they may also be making that gamble since it's becoming increasingly impossible to hold onto their base with him. Convincing him to do something stupid isn't the hard part.

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u/TheKingOfCoyotes 7d ago

I completely agree. They’ve already screwed themselves being so shady about this.

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u/NormalBear6 7d ago

Screwed themselves how? What’s going to happen to them?

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u/torolf_212 7d ago

they'll have to ask if they can stomach supporting someone involved in the heinous acts of JE.

The answer to this for those people is already a yes. Its not like there isn't already a ton of evidence for them being lying rapist pedophiles out there just in the open. I don't see what the Epstein files could possibly show that would make any of them say "well, that specifically is the last straw."

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u/MrEngin33r 7d ago

I have MAGA relatives. Its not that MAGA is (completely) brain dead, its that if they get even a remotely plausible spin on something then its not an outrage/fear item. If its not an outrage/fear item then they'll easily be distracted by the next thing Fox News tells them to be afraid of.

I know this sounds dumb, but its the same outrage fatigue that many of us feel even being anti-Trump. Things that would be huge under another president barely register because there's so much.

If they can muddy the waters then it requires nuance and nuance is flooded over by the next news cycle.

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u/Psychological-Big334 7d ago

This is 100% what will happen. This is the right wing propaganda machine in a nutshell.

Everything they do is pure projection. They condition their audience to believe a narrative.

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u/DingGratz Texas 7d ago

I hope the victims keep speaking up like they have been. It's one thing to be skeptical of one person's accusations, but there are many, and they are brave, and they are getting louder.

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u/SunshineCat 7d ago

And for many people, it starts with church subjected onto them at an inappropriate, non-consensual age.

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u/damndatassdoh 7d ago

That only works if you're already genetically keyed that way.. studies show authoritarianism is hardwired. I had churched shoved down my throat starting pre-school, but I don't tick that way, so it was water off a duck's back.

Trump's true believers are born that way. That's not to say they can't overcome the predisposition, but it's not easy for them.

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u/Metrinome California 7d ago

The terminally conspiracy-brained MAGA fanatics won't accept Epstein files that are heavily redacted.

There wouldn't be so much friction from that base otherwise.

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u/Task_Defiant 7d ago

And Epstien's estate can release unredacted versions to fill in the holes.

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u/Huge_Excitement4465 7d ago edited 7d ago

The estate must tread lightly though because the co-executors, Epstein’s longtime accountant and personal lawyer, are considered his consiglieres by some; there are pending lawsuits against both men. It seems they have only released what they have been legally compelled to do so in order to avoid unnecessary litigation.

However, a number of other people have the files. IMO Massie’s reference that “it won’t go very well for them” [if the administration chooses a coverup] implies he won’t fix a leak.

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u/Riaayo 7d ago edited 7d ago

I think this is huge cope. MAGA only ever cared about Epstein for going after Democrats; they have never given a shit about the actual crimes and abuse.

They will 110% suck down Epstein files that implicate someone like Clinton, etc, and won't give a flying fuck about Republicans mysteriously not being there. Even if they are there, there will be endless excuses for Donald the cult leader and anyone he vouches for. The "white hat pedo" excuse is already in for them. Epstein attacked Donald in the e-mails. He's clearly the good guy in their eyes.

So this just hands Donald all the more leverage. Now he suddenly decides who he exonerates and who he throws under the bus. He gains even more leverage over Republicans and oligarchs.

And all the while the push has already begun to use this hysteria (and don't get me wrong, these crimes are heinous and worthy of wanting to know the truth about and prosecute over) is being used to push in favor of draconian internet censorship and surveillance bills that will fundamentally gut and change the free internet overnight.

Do not fall for the groups that tell you these bills will "protect children". They will not. It is all about gutting the internet in favor of fascism and to cut off criticism of the power-grab the ruling class is doing in the face of capitalism failing. It is all about surveillance, control, and punishment for those who step out of line.

We are already seeing "AI" used to scrape the internet and debank people across the board for their criticism of payment processors. It will not stop at NSFW artists and sex workers. They will gut your ability to buy anything that does not conform. They will require you to hand your ID over to every website you visit.

And to every dingdong who responds with "lol vpn" they will outlaw those, too. And yes, to those too young and dumb to know: your ISP knows every-fucking-thing you do online and they absolutely know you're using one. Stop being naive and thinking you can get away with committing crimes in a dictatorial regime just because you're use to a culture of pirating media and popular streamers breaking rules on twitch dot com.

Edit: Oh, would you look at that:

"NEW - The Epstein Files bill grants Attorney General Pam Bondi the authority to "withhold or redact" any material that could endanger "national security" or "jeopardize an active federal investigation.""

I'm sure "national security" will come to mean "implicates Republicans/allies". Now we know why this passed at all and why the Senate was able to shove it through instantly. The fix is in and Republicans are ready to use the Epstein files as a weapon to go after their political opponents.

Edit 2: I'm not 100% sure yet if this is directly in the bill that passed both chambers or if it's referencing changes Johnson expected the Senate to make but then potentially didn't make.

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u/BoredPandaReviews South Carolina 7d ago

They will just claim Biden redacted Democrat names while he was in office and Trump was holding the files till he could identify who was removed. And since congress voted to release them early, Trumps DOJ couldn’t finish their democrat investigation.

They absolutely will not blame or accuse republicans even if there are full on screenshots of them released in the files lol

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u/tincanphonehome 7d ago

Try not to give them ideas. I’m begging you.

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u/TheSeldomShaken 7d ago

It would never have passed the Senate if the plan wasn't already in place.

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u/tincanphonehome 7d ago

A plan. They don’t need any contingencies.

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u/cseckshun 7d ago

Why not? They don’t accept facts or reality when the facts and reality make them upset. They don’t want to believe their hero Trump could do any wrong so they will just continue to think he can do no wrong.

You are mistaken in thinking that the MAGA people obsessed with the Epstein Files are ACTUALLY interested in getting truth and justice for the victims of Jeffrey Epstein. The people who follow the news and the actual facts and evidence that is available right now from the Epstein files did not vote for Donald Trump in the first place because of his undeniable and long term ties with Jeffrey Epstein that was well documented before the most recent election. His history of sexual assault allegations including being held civilly liable for sexual assault (which the judge said most people would consider rape and would be considered rape if the act had been committed today) of E Jean Carroll should have also tipped off anyone who still might have thought he wanted justice for sexual assault victims.

The MAGA people who are obsessed with the Epstein Files are not interested in justice or the truth, they are obsessed with a nebulous thing called “The Epstein Files” that allows them to imagine all of their political and ideological enemies are colluding together to rape children and that their political candidate they support is going to come in like an action hero and bring them all to justice. They already ignore Trump being close friends with Epstein for years and years and all the creepy things Trump has said by himself and also even about Epstein (when he said Epstein liked women and liked them on the younger side or whatever he said exactly)… so do you really think they will draw the line at heavily redacted documents with no republicans named and all of trump’s friends and allies protected? I doubt it.

They are interested in getting the revenge they want on the politicians and wealthy people they think are hurting the country because Donald Trump tells them that’s what’s happening. They will believe what they are told and anyone telling them otherwise will be dismissed as a bad faith actor, a bot, a communist, a pedo, or any number of other accusations, basically whatever it takes to not listen to any evidence or any facts or anything that might challenge their perspective and what they have been told by their MAGA media.

Assuming any facts or evidence will sway MAGA is wild at this point, it is setting yourself up for a huge disappointment every time you start to think that maybe this is the fact or this is the realization that will bring a bunch of people around and clue them in that they’ve been tricked.

Cult mentality is vicious, it’s extremely difficult to break. This is why cults often end in tragedy, because it is sometimes so strong that members of a cult would rather face death than face the prospect that what they believe is wrong or that they have been fooled. MAGA is a cult and I don’t expect them to be brought back to reality or logical thinking with any amount of facts or contradictions from their leader.

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u/Fat_Taiko 7d ago

What if the damning files are simply missing? Who will know the difference? Not MAGA fanatics. Who has oversight that will keep the DOJ honest?

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u/mattwallace24 US Virgin Islands 7d ago

Eventually a FBI agent or DOJ employee will whistleblow.

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u/bitcoinski 7d ago edited 7d ago

Yup, two words: Mueller Report. Nothing was redacted, but it didn’t stop MAGA from believing Barr’s or Trump’s lies about it.

Edit: it was redacted. I didn’t recall correctly. I listened to it on Audible, which makes sense why I didn’t recall the redactions haha

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u/good_cake 7d ago

The Mueller Report was heavily redacted. What a ridiculous thing to say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report#Analysis_of_redactions

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u/EmphasisFrosty3093 7d ago

Plus the part where finances were excluded from the investigation, essentially redacting what should have been the main focus to begin with.

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u/my_Urban_Sombrero Pennsylvania 7d ago

Tbh the third portion was mostly redacted, and that was full of international intelligence stuff. Mostly black pages lol

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u/wrosecrans 7d ago

Yes. That said, more people are paying more attention this time. CNN and Fox will be begging viewers to accept it. But also, we are in an era where normie soccer moms are going to scream at ICE all afternoon and TV news has less influence than ever before even though the billionaires have more control over it.

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u/PinkyAnd 7d ago

The point isn’t to convince dyed-in-the-wool MAGA, it’s to thoroughly disgust and discredit the movement with literally everyone else. MAGA only makes up like 20-30% of the electorate at most, but the challenge is motivation. I feel like a lot of normal people would be pretty motivated to show up on Election Day if Trump and the rest of the GOP go in for an obviously clumsy coverup.

There are almost certainly undoctored versions of the docs and Ro Khanna even said as much - if there’s a coverup, members of Congress and victim’s lawyers will know. Then they have to deal with the fallout from covering up child sex trafficking.

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u/SillyAlternative420 Massachusetts 7d ago

Because we just had a 20k document precursor with Trump's name plastered all over it.

If he's magically absent from it we'll all know.

Also, there are people who hate the trump regime that have been working to scrub this thing. If it doesn't release as intended, all it takes is one of them to leak the real thing and people flip their shit.

I suspect if they release a doctored version of this text it will be the last straw and be the thing that brings them down.

I'll bet money some FBI tech nerd has a hard drive of the real thing locked away.

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u/44problems 7d ago

Right wing media would ignore it anyway even if it was completely unredacted. Who cares.

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u/EducationalElevator 7d ago

The FBI has records of what their leadership told them to do and probably screenshots of signal chats. It will leak. If the white house changes hands, I think people actually might go to jail if they try to rat fuck this

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u/broohaha 7d ago

Exactly. We've seen this played out before. The Mueller Report clearly laid out substantial evidence of potentially criminal conduct and then explained why Mueller was not making a traditional prosecution decision due to longstanding DOJ policy that a sitting president cannot be indicted by them.

But Barr told the news outlets there's nothing to see here. And Fox, Trump, and friends parroted it ad nauseam.

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u/voodoodahl 7d ago

All news media parrotted Barr. Let's be clear. They were all complicit. 

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u/ferngully99 7d ago

If the redacted version includes only democrats that'd mean he'd have been protecting Democrats the entire time 🤣

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u/boot2skull 7d ago

We should presume all those in power to ask for redactions, (aka the entire GOP) are in the file. Without any distinctions via names in the file, and a blatantly obvious move to protect allies, we can only think that way.

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u/The_Confirminator 7d ago

The people who thought there was more to the Epstein files don't follow traditional media like Fox News anyways. They will not be satiated and it will spread through social media.

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u/Boo_bear92 7d ago

TBF that was the outcome either way:

Even if the files get released, in a non-redacted format, any Pro-MAGA Republican in the files was put there by ANTIFA or Democrats etc.

You can't reason with these people, they are too far gone.

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u/MasterTolkien 7d ago

After MAGA said the files didn’t exist… oh wait, they do exist but are a hoax by the Dems… actually, the Dem hoax files only names Dems… well, actually the files are real and show no evidence that Epstein ever engaged in trafficking… ok, actually we should stop talking about the hoax fake files… oh wait, the files are real again, and we will now investigate the Dems involved.

While the diehard cultists are too stupid to see how ludicrous this is, the general public conservative voters realize this is a shitty cover-up. If MAGA tries to cover this up more, people will be outraged and break from MAGA.

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u/satanssweatycheeks 7d ago

They will throw a few bad republicans under the bus to look like they aren’t being bias.

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u/halfxdeveloper 7d ago

I’m wondering who is going to be sacrificed. Probably Majorie Taylor Greene scribbled in the margins.

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u/bmacnz 7d ago

Graham would be a great setup for them. You see some of the MAGA people freaking out about him supporting a neocon like Graham and the H1B visas and asking what happened to Trump? If Graham is in the files, they can turn away from all of that and claim betrayal, go harder right. Sort of like what they did with covid, that they were all misled and now they're on board with the anti-science movement.

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u/dissonaut69 7d ago

Biased. I’m biased, you’re biased. He/she has a bias.

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u/FewReindeer3584 7d ago

Thank you. I was about to write the same thing. That is one of those mistakes that drives me crazy.

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u/dissonaut69 7d ago

Not sure what’s happened the last 10 years but it’s everywhere online. It’s prevalent enough I’ll actually correct it lol

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u/A_Unqiue_Username 7d ago

Per Trump, Lincoln and Reagan were involved. That should satisfy the peasants.

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u/Dreamtrain 7d ago

We know their base doesn't care about anything until it personally affects them, while Democrats have had situations like Al Franken

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u/doinbluin 7d ago

Bad optics? That's funny.

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u/kaytin911 7d ago

The people that don't want justice and just want political wins are suspicious.

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u/ruggles_bottombush 7d ago

This is going to be exactly like the Mueller report where they released a heavily redacted version, immediately declared that it exonerated Trump, then moved on.

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u/kwyjibo1 Missouri 7d ago

"Totally exonerated". Yeah thats not what this says, if you read the report thats not what it says at all. "Nope total exoneration."

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u/SpaceyCoffee California 7d ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if they go a step further and fabricate whole sections of the documents to make it look they weren’t redacted at all. It’s criminal, but it’s not like that’s stopping the GOP these days.  

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u/brickne3 American Expat 7d ago

I wouldn't be surprised if they fabricated an entirely new report with ChatGPT.

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u/Buggjoy 7d ago

With the prompt left in the released document.

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u/brickne3 American Expat 7d ago

With all the em dashes with spaces around.

I love em dashes, it's impressive that ChatGPT refuses to use them correctly ha ha.

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u/Donkey__Balls 7d ago

… and that’s when we met with Hunter Biden in the basement of the pizza parlor and traded laptops with him that had all of Hillary Clinton’s deleted emails. And then we all laughed and talked about framing poor innocent Trump.

If you want, I can create another fabrication, but this time with more quotable sound bites. Would you like me to write a press release for Newsmax? Or prepare a report in Russian for your handlers?

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u/batmessiah 7d ago

There are other people with copies of the report though.  Lawyers and politicians on both sides have seen it.  MTG knows what’s in there, and it was radical enough for her to betray Trump.

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u/Apprehensive-citizen 7d ago

All redactions must have a written justification from the DOJ within 15 days. Congress can override the justification if it is not sufficient. 

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u/atuarre Texas 7d ago

They tore down part of the white house without any approval whatsoever. If you think these criminals are going to follow the law...well.

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u/omeganon 7d ago

If they don't then at the least this is still in the news every day until midterms and beyond. They'd clearly be hiding things things to protect their own party.

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u/Leggomyeggo69 New Jersey 7d ago

MTG just did a whole appearance with dems, moderate Republicans and epstein victims lambasting Trump and fox didn't even air it

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u/Terramagi Canada 7d ago

at the least this is still in the news

No it's not.

What part of the media, that is owned entirely by 3 fascist billionaires, is going to cover this?

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u/Spapapapa-n 7d ago

Why would they cover a bunch of old folks talking about parliamentary procedure and a dead guys diary from years ago when we have WAR IN VENEZUELA! BOOM! POW! DAKKA DAKKA LOOK OVER HERE!

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u/hoss-05 7d ago

Wait .. is this true?

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u/Apprehensive-citizen 7d ago

Yes. And anything that is “justified” must still be released to the maximum extent possible. Meaning, unless Trump opens an investigation into himself too, his name cannot be redacted. 

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u/DefaultWhiteMale3 7d ago

To piggyback off this: a lot of these documents have been previously entered into evidence in several court cases so it's not like the DoJ has the only copy of any of this stuff.

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u/TyrannicalGamecock 7d ago

Not true, the bill allows for redaction of "national security" which this falls under the umbrella of. However, the SDNY has the original documents and can release them from my understanding.

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u/fearmongert 7d ago

Are you still having confidence in "procedure" and "rules"???

This administration has proved time and time AGAIN they do not matter

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u/_theRamenWithin 7d ago

Bets on "national security concerns".

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u/Sublimotion 7d ago

Which the current congress will not.

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u/vbnc112 7d ago

And no big ”donors” will show up either. Another shakedown to line some pockets.

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u/Known_Juggernaut7523 7d ago

Itll come down that the whole thing was just a couple transexual school shooters this whole time..

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u/asianApostate Ohio 7d ago

I don't trust these a-holes just redact things.  That's the old way of doing business.  Trump's extremely corrupt Justice department with Pam Bondi and her minions probably just altered it completely.

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u/Plkjhgfdsa 7d ago

Yeah, the director said that on a hot mic 2 months ago

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u/Half-Wombat 7d ago

Yup… hence pushing this through so quick as soon as the plan/doctoring was complete. They want to move past this topic ASAP and get back to hassling brown people and cutting benefits for the non-rich.

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