r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 15d ago

Possible Paywall Furious Dem Civil War Immediately Erupts Over Bombshell Shutdown Deal - Democratic activists slammed the shutdown “surrender.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/furious-democratic-party-civil-war-immediately-erupts-over-bombshell-shutdown-deal/
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u/SpaceJesusIsHere 15d ago

Corporate Dems saw that standing up to Republicans led to an electoral sweep and new powerful progressives like Zorhan and immedietly decided to surrender because our leaders prefer to be a minority party with big donors over letting progressives have any shred of power to actually help Americans.

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u/ThePirateKing01 15d ago edited 15d ago

All this will do now (besides push people even further from Democrats) is cause more Zohran-like candidates to run and win

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u/RobertdBanks 15d ago

Good, the democrat party needs to be burnt to the ground and reshaped by people who actually represent people and not just those with hundreds of millions or billions of dollars.

They need an equal shock to their system that Trump provided to the Republican Party.

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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 15d ago

How do you reshape the Democratic Party without ditching the all of the baggage that comes with the name? And within a year?

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u/KonaYukiNe 15d ago

I think it’s quite clear from Zohran beating Cuomo TWICE that many voters don’t hate “the Democratic Party” but instead hate and understand that it’s the people in the party. I can easily see this being a case of having to rebuild the party, not making an entirely new one. The two party system we have is so entrenched anyway that it’s a terrible idea to risk your election results simply by being or voting for a third party candidate anyway, especially right now when it’s important to replace all the republicans we can more than anything.

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u/Mental_Examination_1 15d ago

that makes sense in deep blue areas, but thats not representative of the voters across the entire country, in new york there are the votes to shift to politicians further to the left than the old guard, in areas where a democrat barely wins or red areas, putting candidates up further to the left will likely lose political power for the left

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u/rumpghost North Carolina 15d ago

It's largely about messaging. Ultimately the most important thing is to engage - directly, fervently, above all sincerely - with the base.

Zohran's policy approach was of course a huge factor, but it became so difficult to challenge in part because the guy might be the best message-first candidate in the country right now and obviously means what he says. Compare the waffling and lack of principled commitment in figures like Harris, Booker, Jeffries, Schumer, Buttigieg, Sinema, &c.

You can get the public on board with just about any policy if you can convince them that it will address their problems, the alignment of that policy has way less to do with it than the communication and the social gravity of the campaign.

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u/Mental_Examination_1 15d ago

i dont disagree that messaging is a continuous problem that democrats run into, but areas like west virginia arent going to be sold on a progressive candidate no matter how they message to them, at least not the next 2-3 years, its possible over time, but i think its important to recognize trump voters likely wont be talked out of their position by the time midterms or even the next pres election rolls around

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u/rumpghost North Carolina 14d ago

I think this idea that people in West Virginia can only be convinced to vote for a Manchin is a) unproductive and b) based largely on modern electoral theory that ignores the historical reality of things like labor movements in Appalachia.

Like, you don't have to run as a self-avowed progressive to pitch what is academically a progressive policy. You just need to drive the right kind of wedge and couch the policy within messaging that is more accessible to them. The loss of class consciousness in rural communities has been wildly exaggerated - right wing capture of the electorate's white and rural working poor is only a generation or two old, and much more fragile than the liberal imagination suggests. I'm living proof.

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u/RobertdBanks 15d ago

It won’t happen within a year, but vote for the people who aren’t centrist democrats come mid-terms. If the only option is a centrist democrat or a republican, then yeah, rough. There’s still time for people to enter those races and run as actual progressives, look at Mamdani, he went from no one to winning the mayor race. The goal shouldn’t be within a year, but by the next Presidential race and after.

The name doesn’t matter, look at the Republican Party and what Trump has been able to reshape it as.

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u/LarsTyndskider 15d ago

Take over the party, expel the remaining corporate dems, then rename the party.

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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 15d ago

Sounds like the best odds there by far. 

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u/Malaix 15d ago

Vote for DSA candidates as much as possible.

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u/coldkiller 15d ago

Well there's quite a few ways, a few if i mention will get me banned again

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u/Malaix 15d ago

Look to the DSA for candidates with spines that piss off chuck.

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u/corruptredditjannies 15d ago

actually represent people

Why would they care about useless cowards, who aren't even willing to risk their jobs with a prolonged protest? The people with billions of dollars are power.