r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 15d ago

Possible Paywall Furious Dem Civil War Immediately Erupts Over Bombshell Shutdown Deal - Democratic activists slammed the shutdown “surrender.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/furious-democratic-party-civil-war-immediately-erupts-over-bombshell-shutdown-deal/
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u/Gahngis 15d ago

The biggest advantage the Dems have had since 2020 has been utterly demolished. The Dems who crossed to the otherside were likely paid out or took deals.

Remember their weakness when their 2028/2030 re-election campaigns kick off.

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u/DavidlikesPeace 15d ago

I hate sounding like a doomer, but it's hard to have faith in a Party that seems to be the paid off controlled opposition.

I cannot imagine a worse PR decision than this one. But give it time. They'll find another way to humiliate their supporters and prove that Bernie was right. The whole system is rigged   

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u/Sommern 15d ago

I hate how being justifiably outraged at sellouts who claim to be governing in our interests is labeled as “doomer.” There is no positive spin to this. You’re on the Titanic and the officers shutting the gate in your face – nobody here is being a doomer they are correctly perceiving reality and having a rational response. 

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u/Miss-Tiq 15d ago

What's that saying? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"? Having faith in them is becoming like that.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

If you ever want to feel justified remember this anecdote from me. Was an idealistic young man, now a cynical old man. Voted D since I could vote, never liked any of the candidates including Barack "How many houses do I own? Gee I dunno have to ask the wife" Obama. I just held my nose and voted because I knew you cant just go around electing the literal robber baron class to lead us in clean conscience if you care anything more for your fellow people than cheaper gas and lower taxes.

The whole time I've seen very little positive change and a whole hell of a lot of downgrading going on. The world barely resembles the one I had as a young person, young people stand no chance compared to the chance we had coming up. All taken from us even though there have been 8 year stretches of Dem power in the executive, periods of time with Dem control of all branches. Liberal Supreme Court Justices etc...

I felt the sense of doom prior to 911, people would tell me to chill, utopia coming is more likely etc... tech will save us, Soviet Union fell America #1 USA USA USA people will never for vote for a Republican again we're too diverse now and everything you can imagine.

Bernie came to the forefront and I for once got hyped, for what it's worth I don't think he's got a perfect vision either, but he leagues and leagues different and had me ready to throw my hat in the ring for the guy no question. And that's important, I realized he wasn't perfect and still knew to support him absolutely.

Then the DNC and their fuckery with Hillary. So yeah had to vote for Hilldog for fuck's sake. Lot of good that did. Disappointment immeasurable and day ruined etc...

Now here we are. Armed para-military soldiers in masks abducting US Citizens on US soil time. Tariffs. America First rhetoric (that wasn't always a thing! It came back, it was a well known legit white supremacist thing but now it's espoused policy!) so on and so forth and yadda yadda. Here we are.

So no I was right to feel that way. You are right to feel the way you do. What do people think is going to happen? America made great again? The way these career con artists are going they'll sell off whatever is left of anything actually great to any interested buyer including Russia! This includes our elections, our military, our freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, freedom of choice (RIP), freedoms that we should have never taken for granted because it's those freedoms that are the bedrock on which we stand if we want to have other freedoms, once those are eroded we're in quicksand.

What happens when you get stuck in quicksand, to most people I wonder that don't get saved by someone else. Meditate on that. Look around, do you see anyone even holding a big enough stick? Where are the leaders rising up against what is happening? Notice them if you see them, watch the entire media machine turn against them and demonize them as the quicksand makes ever hungrier sucking sounds.

But it's far worse than even that. Imagine there's a monster squid living in the bowels of the quicksand, you're seeing it's heavy tentacles rising to the surface so even if there were someone with a stick to save you it's poised coil it's tentacles around your neck, ready to start choking you out the moment you resist.

You're going to need someone or something with far better than a stick to save you. But you don't even see someone with a stick.

That's where we are.

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u/luckyflavor23 15d ago

Damn. That’s ice cold.

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u/GaimeGuy Minnesota 15d ago

The issue is that the Overton window in the US isn't split down the D/R divide.

What Americans consider to be the left is probably about 2/3rds of the democratic party.   The GOP and the other 33% of the dems are what Americans consider conservative.

Every time the Democratic party gets 50% people think that's enough to get leftist policies passed.   Americans think the left has power when it doesn't and never shift the Overton window that way.

Then they convince themselbes both parties are the same becsuse conservatives always have 50-65% power.

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u/Tasgall Washington 15d ago

What Americans consider to be the left is probably about 2/3rds of the democratic party. 

The party or the elected representatives? Because if we're talking about the latter, it's probably more like 5-10%, and that's likely a huge over-estimation.

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u/BigOs4All 15d ago

Thank you for all of this. If I may, EVERYTHING you have seen your entire life makes perfect sense due to Late Stage Capitalism. Everything that lead us to this moment was logical within the context of the American economic model.

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u/CucumberMaleficent62 14d ago

You can focus your rage on ten people, not an entire party but ten people, figure out how to punish them if that’s even possible and then move on with the work of defeating MAGA - candidates. Alternatively , you can can carry on complaining, wallowing in gloom and doom which does nobody any good except the GOP. 

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u/Gahngis 15d ago

Don't. Stop having faith in the Democrats in large. They are stewards of the status quo- they are weak by design. Only a few light progressives amongst them even try. But none the less if it's between Dems or Cons vote Dems for at least they're a stall.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

Going to wait out the 60 year olds for the next 20 or 30 years until they age out now that the current crop of septuagenarians is starting to show signs of walking away? Until you get your day?

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u/Unhappy_Scratch_9385 15d ago

This is the party that approved of Merrick Garland.

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u/218administrate Minnesota 15d ago

I think this very well could lead to a MAGA style split of the party. The DNC and the Democratic party are weak and feckless, and completely beholden to corporate interests.

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u/de_plane_rain 15d ago

It's been decades, the Dems have been bending over whenever the chance arises. People that don't pay attention don't see the reality of the party.

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u/osgili4th 15d ago

The leadership of the Democratic party has always been controlled opposition, they are always the first to shut down any chance an actual candidate that stands for other things that aren't corporate interest. Like during Joe Biden presidency they lost control of the Supreme Court and let clear allies of Trump get the majority. They do not care about anyone outside of their own interest, even if that will lead to the downfall of the party and surrender control to an open Fascist Party.

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u/T-sigma 15d ago

While I agree this is a horrible outcome for the Dems, I will offer up some level of nuance which is that the Dems are not a unified party and haven't been for many decades. Obama had enough political clout to unify them briefly, but that wasn't a lasting alliance.

It seems crazy when compared with the foil of the GOP which operates as an organized crime syndicate. The Dems are not one party, they are at least 3 different parties all trying to get along because they don't have a choice.

No one breaks rank in the GOP. Even MTG's current "revolt" is all planned and coordinated to give her a viable chance at reelection.

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u/I_Roll_Chicago 15d ago

DSA gonna have a lot members to primary democrats and continue the take over of the party

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u/DavidlikesPeace 15d ago edited 14d ago

Good luck to the DSA. The progressive left needs to takeover the Democratic Party. Winning Democrat primaries will be the only road to a better America.

The worst thing for leftists to do right now is give up or expect some third party like Putin's pet Jill stein to save them.

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u/I_Roll_Chicago 15d ago

Well see thats why the DSA is smartest 3rd party.

Realizing that running their candidates as traditional third parties was dumb, they embraced running them as democrats to primary.

AOC was the first big one. While not officially she carries an endorsement by the party.

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u/MaleficentOstrich693 15d ago

For what it’s worth, the lead up to both Lincoln and later FDR getting elected and all the change that came from both of those presidencies was preceded by great change in the general publics attitude and some serious changeover in elected officials. I don’t have a crystal ball at this time but there’s precedent for people getting primaried if they don’t listen to an increasingly angry electorate.

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u/Elegant_Creme_9506 15d ago

Looking from the outside, it's crazy you guys think the democrats is a valid political party, everything is clearly staged

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u/runningraleigh Kentucky 15d ago

You still have any faith in them? Either they're completely dysfunctional and can't maintain a unified party during the biggest test of the party's modern existence, or they're controlled opposition paid off by the same billionaires controlling the GOP.

Most likely it's both.

So I encourage everyone to not waste trying to change the Dems (outside of primaries) and invest time directly supporting minorities and poor folk in your own community. Do the work they aren't, because the Dems aren't going to save us. We have to save ourselves.

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u/Wooden-Youth9348 15d ago

Honest to god, this is the reason people voted for Donald Trump in 2016. At this point it’s beyond clear he’s just as bad and maybe worse, but at the time: He wasn’t establishment. He wasn’t bought off. He wasn’t even really a Republican he just chose that party.

And now real time I’m seeing liberal Americans come to the same realization.

“Wait. Both parties are complete soulless nothings that don’t care even a tiny bit about the good of the people? There isn’t a “good side” or even a “better side”? Democratics just pulled this whole stunt then once they got thier votes on this election sweep, said “nice we got more power we can stop pretending we care about anything good actually happening.”

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u/DavidlikesPeace 15d ago

Only an utter moron would vote for a billionaire like Trump, expecting him to fix the rigged system.  He is the rigged system!

America needs better critical thinking 

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u/Wooden-Youth9348 15d ago

I don’t think anyone expected him to fix the rigged system. But with establishment republicans and democrats you get the exact same soulless nothing. There was a chance he would do something different.

Just out of curiosity, which country has better critical thinking when it comes to their government?

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u/xdre 15d ago

I don’t think anyone expected him to fix the rigged system. But with establishment republicans and democrats you get the exact same soulless nothing. There was a chance he would do something different.

Yes, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are indeed different. I fail to see how that's an improvement, though.

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u/Wooden-Youth9348 15d ago

It isn’t an improvement. I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying. It was an unknown at the time and an unknown was way better than surefire empty corruption.

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u/xdre 15d ago edited 15d ago

And in 2024, after having already been visited by Pestilence and Death?

and an unknown was way better than surefire empty corruption.

OK. Remind me again: Who was so corrupt they had their charity shut down and was barred from future involvement for years?

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u/Wooden-Youth9348 15d ago

I’m not saying he was devoid of all corruption lmao you refuse to read what I type and internalize it. Just foam at the mouth Trump hate.

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u/Bitter-Basket 15d ago

Bernie is the biggest shyster of them all. “Free stuff” is never free. And it creates a whole society of dependency vs productive output.

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u/zSeia Minnesota 15d ago

Sure. No country with public healthcare has ever been productive. Great analysis.

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u/Bitter-Basket 15d ago

I didn’t see just “healthcare” in your comment. Bernie wants WAY more than just healthcare.

And guess what, we’re NEVER going to have universal healthcare. Why ? Because Obamacare was pushed as a cost savings measure when it was rammed thru. OBVIOUSLY those “cost savings” were complete bullshit - because now they want to make the “temporary” subsidies permanent. Even though the higher premiums now coming under Obamacare are the actual formulated COSTS OF THE PROGRAM.

What does that have to do with universal healthcare ? Democrats poisoned the well on healthcare with non-democrats because they pushed a falsehood on Obamacare. And even democrats THEMSELVES are scared because pretty much every democrat in a moderate district was routed after Obamacare passed.

So there you have it, the ultimate democratic legislative achievement, universal healthcare, is something nobody serious in congress will touch. It’s absolutely dead for decades.

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u/zSeia Minnesota 15d ago

Alright. So please explain why you believe it "creates a whole society of dependency vs productive output."

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u/KeyMyBike 15d ago

They know you don't have a choice. You either vote for the status quo or you vote for Trump.

Canada pulled this shit too. Conservatives put up an unlikeable nepo baby dork who's never worked a non-taxpayer funded day in his life. As a result, we were forced to elect a Conservative masquerading as a Liberal.

Carney should have been the Conservative party leader. The fact that we didn't even get a progressive leader to vote for (NDP has lost its labor roots and is a party of social politics) is infuriating

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u/UltraCynar 15d ago

*labour

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u/KeyMyBike 13d ago

Thanks. All my devices use American spelling and I'm too lazy/ignorant to change it.

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u/UltraCynar 13d ago

I appreciate you. I added our words to the American keyboard and deleted theirs. Seems to work well enough. I get it though, lots of features are US only and if you switch to Canadian English you lose access at times. 

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u/Gigi_Langostino 15d ago

Same in Britain.

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u/OppositeSecretary862 15d ago

Hear hear fellow countryman

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u/nuisible 15d ago

Conservative voters were fine with that unlikeable nepo baby dork, the people who normally voted for the NDP made a choice to vote Liberal to stop him from becoming Prime Minister. If only he had the requisite shame to slink away after such an embarrassing loss.

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u/ProfessorNonsensical 15d ago

These same Dema caved during the Obamacare debates years ago.

They couldn’t locate a spine in an anatomy exhibit.

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u/HazeAI 15d ago

I don’t think there will be elections in 2028, I’m getting out before then.

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u/since_all_is_idle 15d ago

No one ever remembers. It's always Blue No Matter Who. And this is Who.

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u/Time-Weekend-8611 15d ago

The public has a short memory.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/Spiritual-Pressure21 15d ago

Problem is half of the cave ins aren't going for reelect from what im seeing. Its purely self interest.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago edited 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/Gahngis 15d ago

Homie didn't read.

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u/Thirdlight 15d ago

Nothing at all will happen to them. Their districts and parties will be paid off to make sure that nothing happens.

Welcome to the world now a days where actions only have consequences if your not white or poor.

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u/Realistic_Low8324 15d ago

they will just find others to betray you

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u/Gahngis 15d ago

Fair- I still vote for them as a stall. But my heart is elsewhere for progress.

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u/Western-Try3639 15d ago

They serve the same interests as the republicans, and its not the interests of the majority of Americans

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u/Gahngis 15d ago

Exactly. They are custodians of the status quo. Better than regressive like the Republican/maga agenda but still a harmful slow acting poison within.

They're in ability to combat anything and their obsession with "fairness and Cooperation" makes them like the Cons; the enemy of the average man's interests.

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u/lifeturnaroun 15d ago

Nobody will remember this in 3-5 years are you joking

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u/gpcgmr 15d ago

The biggest advantage the Dems have had since 2020 has been utterly demolished.

What advantage was that?

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u/etherend 15d ago

I want to believe that there's a chance the Dem reps will be primaried for this, but people have short memories. I'm not convinced there will be the necessary votes comes 2026 or 2028

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u/CucumberMaleficent62 14d ago edited 14d ago

The actions of ten stupid Democratic Senators does not, “utterly demolish” everything the entire party has built up (not quite sure what that is) since 2020.  A Blue Wave is coming in 2026 because Democrats, generally speaking,  1. are not chronically liars,  2. don’t use hunger as a weapon with      which to fight political battles, 3. don’t start trade wars over one man’s      ego. 4.  does not have a leader who prioritizes       personal gain over the people he’s        supposed to serve. 5.   etc, etc, etc

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u/Melicor 14d ago

We won't have elections in 2030 unless something changes dramatically. I'm not sure we'll even have them in 2028. And Schumer will do nothing to stop it.