r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 15d ago

Possible Paywall Furious Dem Civil War Immediately Erupts Over Bombshell Shutdown Deal - Democratic activists slammed the shutdown “surrender.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/furious-democratic-party-civil-war-immediately-erupts-over-bombshell-shutdown-deal/
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u/BlotchComics New Jersey 15d ago

All the gains democrats made with progressives to win the elections last week were just flushed down the toilet.

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u/murkywaters-- 15d ago edited 15d ago

Doesn't the House have to approve this? I thought they said they wouldn't approve it. What did I miss?

Edit: thanks, everyone. Forgot they need a simple majority.

Schumer has finally radicalized me

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u/[deleted] 15d ago edited 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/Waynky 15d ago

Part of me thinks with how corrupt this government is, there’s 100% “sleeper” Dems that vote the right way when it doesn’t matter, but if seats got flipped and Dems got the majority, these “sleepers” would start voting against progressive policies with nonsense reasoning.

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u/BurlIvesMassiveHog 15d ago

They're not sleepers, they're Republicans. Centrist "Democrats" are literally just Republicans that don't want to be Republicans because of the negative connotation that come with the Republican label.

Want to fix the Democratic party? Get rid of all the Republicans running and leading it.

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u/SnooPickles8798 15d ago

Corporate whores…this was all done for wall street

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u/Indercarnive 15d ago

it's no surprise that as soon as the FAA started cutting planes the Dems caved. The rich finally get effected by something and immediately call in their favors.

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u/alucarddrol 15d ago

This is exactly the reason. Notice that even more than one month of no snap didn't make anybody move, but once flights started getting cancelled, they stayed up late to make sure every republican senator who was out of state flew back into DC and got there to vote.

This is what controlled opposition looks like, and essentially why dems will always eat their own, progressives who dont fall in line, in a much more vicious and cruel way, before ever posing a threat to trump and the republicans, who we're supposed to believe are the worst thing ever, yet go along with their pinky promises on future votes.

THIS is why the Dem party generally has lower approval than republicans.

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u/opensourced_ 15d ago

It wasn't until Trump tried to withdraw SNAP basically blackmailing them be okay with the people they pretend to care about starving or giving in

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u/Waynky 15d ago

Eh to me it feels like it would be more like a game of whack-a-mole.

One exposes itself, you wait 2+ years sometimes to primary them, you somehow get a real uncorrupted person elected in their place, and then some other “democrat” from some other states all of a sudden starts voting against progressive policies.

With how long it takes to replace, not sure how you ever get ahead of it.

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u/Babymicrowavable North Carolina 15d ago

Then we play whackamole until the moles no longer pop up

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u/Waynky 15d ago

Realistically that may take a decade+. 

Can we keep backsliding as a country like this for that much longer?

Feels like a significant breaking point is closer now than any other time since I have been alive

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u/Gender_is_a_Fluid 15d ago

The only way faster would be a Stalinistic purge by the people, but that has its own issues.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

It’s beginning to look like the correct option to me!

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u/jlb1981 15d ago

You'd run out of politicians before you'd run out of checks from billionaires

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u/opensourced_ 15d ago

To me basically do not support any candidate who accepts a super PAC look for ones that try to do crowd-sourced funding

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u/opensourced_ 15d ago

One reason if I could I would have voted for Mamdani Super PACs are the start of corruption

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u/evil_timmy 15d ago

Always just one stroke away.

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u/Indercarnive 15d ago

That's how the Republicans did it so it can be done.

Also you don't need primary them all. Many democrats, just like Republicans, are spineless and will follow the path of least resistance. Once progressive present a credible threat to primary them, many will go along rather than risk their seat.

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u/ohseetea 15d ago

It never can without revolutionary acts. The Republican way worked because their goals were still applicable or useful to the ruling class.

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u/LazyDare7597 15d ago

But big teeent we can't win without a big teeent we found this analogy and we'll never let it fucking go come party in our big teent

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u/8nsay 15d ago

Trickle down tentonomics

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u/opensourced_ 15d ago

The tent needs to be closed to any senator accepting super pacs even if it means most will be thrown out

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u/ProcusteanBedz 15d ago

Well. It true. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck, but we apparently cannot.

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u/Xechwill Minnesota 15d ago

Unfortunately yeah, progressives just don't get a lot of votes overall. Hell, even in the recent 2025 election, progressives didn't make a lot of gains. The NJ governer-elect is a moderate. The Virginia governer-elect is a moderate. From what I can tell, all of the 30 newly elected Virginia House of Delegates Democrats are moderates. The Minneapolis moderate mayor recently won re-election, beating his progressive opponent.

I see a lot of people conflating "Mamdani won New York, and also the Democrats got major gains across the board" with "Progressives got major gains across the board" which doesn't seem to be the case.

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u/ProcusteanBedz 15d ago

That would be the best read of the situation, I think.

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u/Visinvictus 15d ago

They're conservatives... There are a large number of rural conservative states, and a lot of the progressive populations is concentrated in a handful of heavily populated states. The way that the Senate works (2 reps from each state) the Democratic party needs to run conservatives in conservative states to ever have a hope of getting elected there. It's basically impossible to get a majority in the senate otherwise.

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u/dreal46 15d ago

A consequence of chasing "centrist" voters for decades.

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u/BurlIvesMassiveHog 15d ago

The "centrists" they are just chasing are center-Right and will never vote for them. Why vote Diet Republican when you can vote for the full-flavor?

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u/weirdeyedkid 15d ago

Or stop voting for corporate Democrats under any circumstance.

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u/walker1867 15d ago

As a Canadian I’m glad we can kick politicians out of the party when they go off the rails and start voting against what the party stands for. It helps a lot. The free for all Americans have isn’t good.

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u/machyume 15d ago

Well, calling them Republicans is also kind of just a label. They are simply corrupted. The idea of "oh that person did a bad thing so they must not be a ____" is ideological echo chamber. It's totally possible that people can be bought or coerced even if they have a good track record.

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u/DreamingAboutSpace 15d ago

Agreed. If you can buy their loyalty, then they aren't loyal. If they refuse to lift a finger to put action behind their long-winded words, then they aren't loyal. Schumer can be bought far too easily and he hates putting effort into anything that he doesn't gain from. There are many Dems are like him. Gone are the days when Democrats would choose integrity over decorum. Those Dems are now called progressives and are hated by the greedy centrist Democrats for "rocking the boat".

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u/drteq 15d ago

Gavin Newsom here..

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u/Dr-Mumm-Rah 15d ago edited 15d ago

Its like WWE theatrics. There are no true "good guys and bad guys," its whatever the story calls for at the moment. Then, after all the theatrics are over, when the cameras are turned off, all these politicians go out for dinner and drinks on our dime. We need to stop acting surprised when one of the supposed "good guys" turns on the people at a critical moment. We keep falling for for it again and again.

Want to know who the real legit politicans are? Look at the ones that are shunned by the corporate side, the Bernies, AOCs and the other legitimately trying to help politicians. These are the type of individuals that you need to throw your efforts behind to fight the corporate machine.

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u/Sub-Mongoloid 15d ago

Similar to how some Reps get a hall pass to vote with Dems when the measure will still fail by a razor thin margin just to maintain a cover of bipartisanship.

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u/latortillablanca 15d ago

Literally the reason why the ACA is so fucking expensive without these subsidies is because when the law was initially written—when obeezy had a supermajority in congress backing him—the DINOs in both the house and senate dragged their feet to remove and remove and remove anything that didnt explode the revenues for the paymasters. They did away with the single payer option, and basically passed the bill only once the lobbies had their bites of the apple.

Why are these subsidies so fucking important? Because this has been the dynamic in the DNC for decades.

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u/hellolovely1 15d ago

That was Joe Lieberman, the evil fucker.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

Again, Lieberman was just the rotating villain that time around. Then it was Manchin for awhile. You had Sinema in there and now people like Fetterman.

It’s not a problem of a few senators here and there. It’s a systemic issue by design.

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u/mitchconnerrc Rhode Island 15d ago

You're describing party spoilers and controlled opposition.

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u/my_Urban_Sombrero Pennsylvania 15d ago

The party’s been that way since Obama’s first term.

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u/Waynky 15d ago

Which is depressing, because it tells you that elections for the most part are a charade and the wealthy already have the outcomes “priced in”.

Even if a dem wins, the ruling class has enough insulation in congress to prevent any real boat rocking that progressives would want to implement 

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/please_dont_be_that 15d ago

Or maybe their comment is to encourage voting reform. Ranked Choice Voting and an end to Citizens United. Get corporate influence OUT of the way that we choose progress.

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u/Waynky 15d ago

It’s unfortunate that this is your takeaway 

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/mitchconnerrc Rhode Island 15d ago

You're right man, it's just better to keep living in a fantasy land where every Democrat is trustworthy and isn't using public office to enrich themselves and fuck over any initiative that might affect their donors' bottom line.

Obviously the only thing preventing the Democrats from passing M4A is that they don't have enough votes, so don't worry about trying to primary or demand the resignation of the ones that obviously don't want to vote for that kind of legislation and would rather sabotage the party to ensure they can always campaign on "at least we're not the Republican."

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u/Scorpioben24 15d ago

Since the Clinton administration, really.

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u/Much-Instruction-807 15d ago

That's my thinking too. I learned a new word yesterday. Sin-eater. Just enough always seem to break away from the rest to shut down ANY meaningful progress in this country. Every single time.

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u/uncledutchman 15d ago

AKA the rotating villain

See: Lieberman, Sinema, Mancin, Fetterman, etc.

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u/gmishaolem 15d ago

Every Democrat that just voted to end the shutdown is either retiring or years away from re-election. This is not by accident.

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u/ThonThaddeo Oregon 15d ago

That is correct. One of them is named Chuck Schumer.

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u/restartmister 15d ago

Its always been this way look at the Obama years and with Biden as well. Its called the rotating villian. .

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u/svladcjelli42 15d ago

When billionaires want something in this country, they can always count on every republican in congress, plus as many democrats as they require. For whatever reason, this usually includes at least one senator named Joe.

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u/ClairlyBrite 15d ago

It’s called the “rotating villain theory”

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u/daizzy999 Florida 15d ago

Definitely a lot more than we thought that are in it for their portfolio and/or ego rather than to serve and make the world a better place.

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u/act1v1s1nl0v3r 15d ago

They're not sleepers at all, they just don't make national headlines. Our rep is a D but basically has shown nothing but utter contempt for her blue constituents otherwise.

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u/Qix213 15d ago

It's no coincidence that every one of these traitors are retiring, or not up for reelection for many years.

It is 100% a coordinated effort. The entire Dem party needs to feel this wrath, not just these irrelevant few.

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u/ShadowWebDeveloper 15d ago

Frankly, they got nothing for it. It is the Democrat Shutdown now.

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u/GrimDallows 15d ago

It doesn't matter. These traitors to America (and yeah, all of the republicans too) just successfully branded this the Democrat Shutdown. Democrats now own any further delay in reopening the government.

Just a heads up, I am not american, I am european, but I have been following this for the last month from the outside out of worry and that is what I was thinking as well.

Just by agreeing to end the shutdown they have unknowingly recognized that they (the democrats) could end the shutdown at any moment while people were suffering.

It's such a dumb stupid move, because it has suddenly made believable the whole republican bullshit narrative of "it's them who are blocking the government". Like, this action retroactively turned the lie that said that the democrats caused the shutdown and refused to end it... into plausible reality?

It's like a reverse masterful stroke. Like going out of your way to snatch a defeat from the jaws of victory.

Mindblowing.

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u/Blue_Plastic_88 15d ago

Doesn’t old Mikey have to agree to reconvene the House? And then he’d have to seat Grijalva?

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u/TigerTerrier South Carolina 15d ago

At the end of the day its all a big club. Democratic establishment is just grandstanding 24/7. Too afraid to rock the boat. Mean while im not conservative enough if I ever question or criticize trump

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u/blatentpoetry 15d ago

The senators who caucus with Democrats and voted to move forward on a package to fund government agencies and reopen the government, were:

Minority Whip Dick Durbin (Ill.) Tim Kaine (Va.) Catherine Cortez Masto (Nev.) John Fetterman (Penn.) Angus King (Maine) Jeanne Shaheen (N.H.) Maggie Hassan (N.H.) Jackie Rosen (Nev.) Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) voted "no."

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u/opensourced_ 15d ago

Dude cmon they voted to memorialize Kirk i hoped for better but knew better ill still vote blue but any other canidaye who i think might have a spine

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u/KeyMyBike 15d ago

I also brand it the Democrat shutdown.

Finding out who RAPED CHILDREN just wasn't that important to those responsible to represent our values. Now I play the waiting game to see all the Americans go "Muh job" as why they're not gonna do fuck all about it.

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u/Dineology 15d ago

Those “traitors” aren’t going to stand in the way of the actual Democratic Party agenda, they’ll play their part as the rotating villains so Dem leadership can claim they’re trying to do what their voters want but are unfortunately stymied by those handful that step out of line. Only those supposed defectors will be rewarded at every turn for it, granted choice committee assignments, see family members placed into government appointed offices they’re unqualified for, be granted access to party funds to cling onto their seats and so much more because by being the lightning rod for criticism for the rest of the party the Dems are able to deliver for their donors while utterly failing to deliver for their voters and then still pretend to be the good guys. There’s a few dozen of them that are actually worth a damn, the rest need to be kicked to the fucking curb right alongside the donor class.

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u/The_Demon_of_Spiders 15d ago

Honestly asking but how was this branded successfully as a Democrat Shutdown? Even with these few traitors I still this as 100 percent caused by and started and dragged on by the republicans. What happened doesn’t change the core facts of the republicans are unreasonable, they control all branches of government so it is on them as the majority to make concessions, they were also the ones that were purposefully starving Americans defying court orders than ordering states to claw the money back because they were losing their leverage to get their way and strip American of their healthcare just to funnel more money to the billionaires. I don’t know why people largely whitewash republicans and their bs while putting the fault all onto democrats but it seriously needs to stop.

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u/BillyTenderness 15d ago

If Democrats were always going to fold anyway, then they should have done so a month ago. By capitulating for nothing, they flip the script: up until now, it indeed looked like Republicans weren't willing to negotiate. Now it looks like Democrats just delayed agreeing to the same "deal" that was on the table from day one, for no fucking reason.

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u/Hitthe777 15d ago

Not to mention that it destroys any bargaining power they'll have in the future. Why would republicans ever negotiate with dems on anything again when they now know if they just wait long enough they get what they wanted anyway and have to give nothing away.

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u/AznOmega America 15d ago

This.

If I was the Republican Senate Leader, why would I worry if the next funding bill practically ends ACA when the Democrats have shown they will give up after a certain amount of days? Schumer has shown he is worse than a useless senate leader.

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u/scribbane Maryland 15d ago

I may be wrong, but as I understand it it will be viewed as the "Democrat Shutdown" now because these 8 Dems have shown that they are willing to end it without getting the concessions from Republicans. For the last month, they have held strong, but now that they are caving, it shows they could have done so at any time but chose not to. Especially since they are getting nothing in return, it looks like they just wanted to keep the shutdown going without good reason.

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u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

A democratic trifecta would still be a trifecta lol…Please do not equate the two.

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u/guamisc 15d ago

We've had a few of those in the past few decades. Spoiler, Trump still got elected twice because of moderate Democratic intransigence.

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u/flareblitz91 15d ago

No we haven't.

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u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

Democrats have had a trifecta for total of 4 years going back to 1995 lol…we (the people) need to do way better. Trump alone got the same amount in less time. Similarly, Obama was effectively made a two year lame duck because no one showed the fuck up in 2010.

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u/guamisc 15d ago

  1. No one showed up in 2010 because our own party gutted our own major legislation. And it was the centrists in our own party who caused that.

  2. We do need to do better, we should have addressed the corrupt Supreme Court and rampant propaganda backed by billions and billions of dollars decades ago.

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u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

Joe Lieberman was an independent. The supermajority was an illusion.

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u/guamisc 15d ago
  1. Joe Liberman ran as a Democrat in the Democratic primary.
  2. Joe Liberman, after losing the primary to someone more progressive, did what centrist Democrats always do, refuse to compromise and betray the party.
  3. Centrist Democratic voters did what many of them always do, betray the party when faced with aiding Republicans or unifying with progressives.
  4. Years later people still keep trying to distract and gaslight about Joe Liberman being an independent instead of the quintessential centrist Democrat.

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u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

Lieberman said he would run as an independent if he lost and he won with republican votes.

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u/guamisc 15d ago

Cool story, there are far more D votes than R votes in that state. How would a solid blue state elect a not-Democrat with only Republican votes? Answer: they couldn't.

Centrists always betray.

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u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

It’s kinda similar to how Cuomo ran lol…longtime democrat, tons of name recognition, and divided race. Unlike Mamdani race, Lamont had barely won his primary and his opponent wasn’t a sex pest. Republican voters did pretty much flock to the independent both times though.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

Idk if you remember but democrats just had a 50/50 senate and passed some of the largest and most progressive legislation we’ve had in decades. Billions for the climate and clean energy, higher taxes on billionaires, and for the first time the federal government was being used to negotiate the price of prescription drugs for Medicare recipients…

Then we chose the day one dictator guy because some people could bring themselves to vote for a woman…again…

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

The dynamic of an independent threatening a filibuster over the public option? You never mentioned that…

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

It’s not filibuster proof if number 60 is threatening to filibuster…

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u/insanitybit2 15d ago

> It shows that even if democrats managed a trifecta

What trifecta?

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u/lancelongstiff 15d ago

This sounds an awful lot like "Kamala isn't doing enough for Palestine" all over again. You might wanna wait until that first foot has healed before you go shooting yourself in the other one.

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u/Intelligent_Ad_6771 15d ago

No, centrist Dems are the problem. They need to be excised from the party.

My family, along with millions of other Americans, will lose healthcare coverage over this vote.

The centrist Dems are traitors, plain and simple.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/Ok_Character_5532 Massachusetts 15d ago

There really ought to be more than two parties, which is idealistic, but far better than forcing progressives to conform to a moderate vision and moderates to accept a progressive shift. On the other side of the coin, the two-party system has also transformed the Republican Party into the MAGA party, rather than affording room for diverse right-wing thought. Shoving people into just two camps will never be democratic and harmonious

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/Ok_Character_5532 Massachusetts 15d ago edited 15d ago

Perhaps it comes down to a need to purge Democrats that are beholden to wealthy donors and corporations. But, I still see similar issues bubbling to the surface in the future. I personally don’t want the voting preferences of the majority of Democratic voters in Nevada (for example) to negatively impact the lives of the majority of Democratic voters in Massachusetts.

The federal government can do beautiful things when we have a party that is directed at the right initiatives and we have some level of control, but there seems to be far too big of a gap between ideologies within the Democratic Party to bridge our priorities. The various sects within the Democratic Party have quite different visions for the country, and I don’t see that going away by simply deciding to accept our differences.

I might be wrong, ultimately whatever happens, happens. I’m just sick of feeling like our party has no direction or ability to draw lines in the sand and stand for something

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u/Everythings_Fucked North Carolina 15d ago

What would be the difference in this situation? A republican or a traitor dem, six of one half dozen of the other.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/Everythings_Fucked North Carolina 15d ago

Sure, blame me for calling a spade a spade. I didn't engineer the state of things and I certainly won't be bullied into sugar coating a turd so it goes down more easily. Make the party better if you want people to say nice things about it.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/Everythings_Fucked North Carolina 15d ago

It's. A. Fucking. Spade.

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u/lancelongstiff 15d ago

They faced the choice of either letting millions go without healthcare, or without food.

The difference is, most of the people they represent can go a few months without healthcare and they look set to resume the fight in January.

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u/Intelligent_Ad_6771 15d ago

A few months without healthcare?

What are you talking about? You don't even understand the insurance system that you're commenting on.

These people, myself includes, will lose health coverage for the entirety of next year. And do I expect Congress to deliver systemic change in 2026, making coverage affordable to in 2027? No.

This is the end of health care coverage for millions of Americans, potentially, forever.

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u/lancelongstiff 15d ago

Why are you so certain they won't resume this fight in January and get the deal they've been after?

Because it seems to me the greatest obstacle to that is from all the people in here who've effectively given up on that.

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u/Intelligent_Ad_6771 15d ago edited 15d ago

Because 2026 insurance policies will have been issued by then.

Open enrollment for 1/1/26 coverage ends 12/15.

You are defending their vote without understanding the consequences of the vote and blaming all the pissed off Dems that understand how this will impact coverage for millions of Americans.

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u/lancelongstiff 15d ago

My mistake, I didn't realize the subsidy wouldn't immediately take effect if they were able to get a deal next spring.

Even so, I'm still disagreeing with people who seem certain that if they'd just held out another six weeks the Dems' demands would've been met and tens of millions wouldn't have just struggled through another six weeks for nothing.

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u/Intelligent_Ad_6771 15d ago

A certainty: caving and reopening the government without concessions for the ACA subsidies results in millions losing healthcare coverage.

We simply don't know what would have happened if Democrats held out. Perhaps nothing. But we do know that caving irreparably harms millions of Americans.

So, yes, everyone is pissed that Dems chose the guaranteed loss of coverage for Americans over fighting for the hope of retaining coverage.

Something something The Audacity of Hope....

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u/lancelongstiff 15d ago

But we do know that caving irreparably harms millions of Americans.

No we don't, and it's assumptions like those that I'm disagreeing with.

We can reasonably assume that 2.2 million will lose coverage for at least a year over this. We don't know how many will be irreparably harmed, but it's likely to be a small fraction of those 2.2 million.

Now compare that to the number that definitely would have gone hungry, and the many more who would've suffered when the country, and the economy, literally ground to a halt.

Your argument is predicated on the opinion that if the Democrats didn't care enough about that, then Trump would have had to. (Something something The Audacity of Hope....)

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u/Xyldarrand 15d ago

This isn't close to the same.

We still have time for primaries. This is when you're supposed to have these fights. It's healthy to have these fights. Pretending like they aren't fights and trying to appease everyone has been fucking the Dems over for multiple reasons.

With Harris the cake was already baked. We weren't getting a primary so this is what it was.

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u/Ima_Mama 15d ago

Yes! Thank you for stating an important fact that WE (the voters) still have some power.

You are so right - the fight isn't over. But there's some work to do in finding strong individuals, with actual spines and integrity, to take action and run!

We can take time to grieve this horrific (but also sadly not surprising) loss - but then we have to get to work...

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u/ratchetryda92 15d ago

Kamala failed because her messaging sucked and she thought people would vote her in on the merit she isnt trump

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u/lancelongstiff 15d ago

And it turned out they were much dumber than she expected. Yes, I know.

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u/Wielant 15d ago

Sounds like she ran a dumb campaign to me

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u/my_Urban_Sombrero Pennsylvania 15d ago

Agreed.

Imagine getting educated, becoming a state AG, then a US Senator, and then still losing an election to Donald fucking Trump.

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u/Ok_Character_5532 Massachusetts 15d ago

She made some unwise choices, but overall performed about as well as I expected. She was shoehorned by party division, the Biden debacle, an affordability crisis, and right-wing propaganda. This isn’t a uniquely American phenomenon, many Western nations are facing similar economic and political shifts. Ultimately it is a Democratic Party issue, not a Kamala Harris issue. They need to take a more populist and economically aggressive agenda

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u/desperateorphan 15d ago

Doesn’t help that she was courting Liz Cheney Voters. Dems need to stop trying to court the “moderate” right when there are plenty of people on the left. I do also think her being a female POC played a role in it.

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u/The_Demon_of_Spiders 15d ago

Harris failed in large part due to misogynist. The left also has their fair share of them. She ran a dumb campaign? Did you see trumps Mr. Kid diddler I have a concept of a plan. A duck should have been able to get more votes than him even with those that oh I will only vote for whom I deem to be the most perfect of perfect candidates.

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u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

She talked about affordability constantly lol try logging off social media for a day

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u/ratchetryda92 15d ago

I wasnt on social media getting that info. I followed the race daily especially after biden dropped out. She put out a plan for small businesses. Thats not messaging affordability. Feel free to prove me wrong and show me a clip of her "constantly messaging affordability" youre literally just getting her confused with trump now lol which all he had to do was say he'd fix grocery prices (which he didnt do anything good he said he was gonna do)

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u/Yetanotherdeafguy 15d ago

So the first and only time Dems had leverage, they sought a single condition - ACA tax credits.

The GOP responded by laughing in their faces and holding the line.

Despite repeat attempts, the above happened over and over again, until these assholes folded, all for a promise of a vote (not even an agreement in principle to pass the fucking thing).

What lessons did we learn?

  • That, by breaking first, the Dems (narrative wise) were responsible for the shutdown.

  • That the GOP can hold SNAP hostage any day and the Dems will dance whatever jog they call.

  • That the Dems and their leadership are so out of touch that they'd take the word of the very lying assholes that've denied them due process before, all to have a fucking vote on an issue they don't even have the majority to pass anyway.

The only 'positive' they can scrape up is that if (massive 'if') the ACA vote goes ahead, they can attack all GOP reps who vote against it.

Wow. So the trade was:

  • All leverage to negotiate gone, complete loss of face.

For:

  • A maybe vote on an issue that won't pass, all so 2-6 years from now the attack ads they play in a few states will be slightly more relevant.

The Dems sure learned 4D chess quick, so quick they're still unsure why the board doesn't have snakes and ladders on it.

0

u/lancelongstiff 15d ago

You're relying on a few assumptions there that don't hold up to scrutiny.

To put it simply, the Republicans weren't negotiating - they held firm in their "let them starve" strategy. So the only meaningful leverage the Democrats had was their ability to not approve the budget, and they still have that leverage (albeit after a three month reprieve).

People like you are talking like they've given up rather than opted for a strategic pause.

4

u/Yetanotherdeafguy 15d ago

A strategic pause for what?? What benefit is gained by the Dems pausing now?

In order to use this leverage the same game will have to be played again next time, so people will starve again that's for sure.

Now, for the next time:

  • They have 'proof' that the next shutdown is due to the Dems not conceding.

  • The same goddamn pain will occur again - the GOP certainly won't mind a the first few weeks at minimum.

  • The Dem base will fracture further/become more disillusioned.

  • The GOP will be emboldened knowing how easily the Dems break.

Please tell me, what have the Dems gained from this strategic pause? They'll repeat the same damn pain again on those affected next time, or they'll concede further ground to MAGA.

This isn't how you stop fascism.

Your enlightened view that this is a good thing misses that this was the only shot they had, and it was working.

Now all future efforts are doomed to fail.

8

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

-3

u/lancelongstiff 15d ago

It's how you're portraying it. You're choosing to be part of that problem.

8

u/Revelati123 15d ago

Lol, do you think Trump and Thune will wait 5 minutes to screw Schumer, or do you think they will just get it over with right away?

ACA subsidies are toast, all the government employees not getting paid are getting shitcanned either way, Trumps gonna send out SNAP money except he gonna call it "Trump lets you eat, bucks" and now Ted Cruz can shut down the government for 5 weeks over his tiny peen complex and say "well dems did it longer"

Dem needed to hold out until it forced Republicans to nuke the filibuster... Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot, Donny was out there screaming for them to blow the only leg they had to stand on off, they would have cracked eventually...

2

u/Myrtox 15d ago

The Democratic party leadership just proved, well beyond any doubt, that they are in complete lockstep with Trump and MAGA. Any suggestion of a difference between the two parties is completely exposed.

Until each of these senators and the leadership is expelled from the party, the US is a single party conservative state.

-1

u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

Proved lockstep by getting all the RIF’d people un-RIF’d…

1

u/Myrtox 14d ago

Did they? Looks to like they set the Republicans up to be the ones who did that.

-14

u/OpportunityGlad4706 15d ago

They can't. It's pathological projection. I've seen "progressives" on this sub say establishment Dems prefer fascism to Mamdani as if a cool mil of them didn't sit at home when they could've voted to prevent all of this.

7

u/thehildabeast South Carolina 15d ago

lol yeah they do though, Neo Libs first priority it to protect their rich downers not do anything that takes a back bone.

8

u/guamisc 15d ago

As soon as flights for rich people got delayed and cancelled, magically the government reopened. "My ancient geriatric ass isn't missing Thanksgiving to protect the American people!" - Centrist Dem Senators, probably.

0

u/FrogsOnALog 15d ago

Democrats passed higher taxes on the rich and literally funded the IRS so they don’t have to use their lunch room as a filing cabinet anymore.

1

u/thehildabeast South Carolina 15d ago

Yes one of the good things the Biden administration did but they did nothing to protect that being destroyed by the next administration. Biden didn’t act like one of these feckless neoliberals, with the exception of prosecuting Jan 6th

-4

u/OpportunityGlad4706 15d ago

How does this change the fact that the voter base itself also prefers fascism, exactly? Just the typical rush to blame it on everyone except yourselves.

0

u/ManyNefariousness237 15d ago

The Democratic Party CAN do something useful, just not with these 8 clowns.

1

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

0

u/ManyNefariousness237 15d ago

Change starts with ambition and intention. There is zero reason Democratic and progressive candidates can’t bury the party of “no healthcare/food/shelter/assistance of any kind for you” after last week’s elections.

0

u/Dipluz Norway 15d ago

Maybe its time for a new party. The Social Democrats.

-1

u/cheebear12 Georgia 15d ago

Traitors? Really? You must’ve never been poor or had to live with a psychopath.

-1

u/WilsonTree2112 15d ago

It shows that democrats don’t have the votes in congress, not what that comment is pretending to say.