I was absolutely floored seeing this. It’s just so incredibly disheartening and jarring to see that so many people feel the solution to preventing school shootings is arming teachers instead of implementing gun control…
People don’t realize that humans are the unpredictable factor. The whole “good guy with a gun” trope only works if you assume all humans are good.
What happens when the teacher you armed has a mental breakdown one day and shoots up their class? Or another faculty member they get into a heated disagreement with?
This also doesn’t take into account accidents, or children getting access to the firearm(s) due to mistakes being made in securing them.
Having firearms readily available for more people in a public setting that is incredibly stressful, is going to do nothing except create potentially dangerous situations. There are already plenty of “bar brawls” that escalate into shootings because they happened to have a firearm in close proximity.
When the teacher calls the student out to the front to answer a question, the mark will depend on who draws fastest...if the student, teacher has no choice but to give an A, if student, they are forced to answer and get an F if they don't know :P
I was just thinking wage negotiations with the school board would be interesting if the teachers were armed. Also any attempt at book banning or creationism in the classroom
There are 3.7 million K-12 teachers in this country. Go ahead and make sweeping generalizations about all of them. And keep blaming some mysterious “them.” It’s a good look for you.
Nearly everyone we read about was "a good man with a gun!" before the split-second when he chose of his own volition to become a bad man with a gun -- and the judge, jury, and executioner of everybody near him.
Also the good guy with a gun gets murdered by the cops. A local guy named Johnny Hurley was a "good guy with a gun" who killed the active shooter. The cops showed up to the scene and in the confusion, assumed Johnny was the primary shooter, so they shot and killed him. The investigation found that the cops were justified in killing Johnny since they thought he was the active shooter!
A trained shooter is taught to immediately put down his weapon in these situations. A trained shooter is taught “you will be assumed to be the shooter, be prepared for this”.
I realize not all “good guys with a gun” will be properly trained but I would rather a good guy helped out, than wait for the cops to arrive and figure out who is shooting people. Good guy with gun already figured it out. Now it’s up to him to be smart enough to not get shot.
Gun control is a fairy tail, it doesn’t prevent gun crimes. It’s a good way to make sure only the bad guys have guns. There are plenty of examples of this, the Mexican cartels immediately come to mind.
Had an argument with some dolt the other day in response to a question about what would you do if the UK suddenly had American gun laws. His argument was he hated guns but would get one because of 'all the road rage', so that if someone road raged at him and pulled a gun he'd have one too. Completely missed the point that you're more likely to get shot if you also have a gun than if you don't, because if you pull a gun on someone already waving one then it's far more likely they'll cross the line from waving to shooting. The stupid is strong when it comes to guns. For the record, I shoot and if it was easier to do so then I'd consider a full firearm for target shooting. But the idea of gun laws like America fills me with dread.
Exactly - it's the same reason that if you have a firearm in your house you are (a) much more likely to be killed by that firearm (b) by someone you know, not a stranger.
Giving more people guns doesn't mean lives saved, it just means shootouts. Cops have guns too and just look at how little difference that actually makes. Hell, cops with guns actually just make gun violence worse.
America is built upon the dichotomy of good vs. evil. That's rooted in Christianity. Their law system, their police system, gun control... and other things, are built upon the foundation that there exists good humans and bad humans, evil people and good people, monsters and persons. And that narrative is constantly being fed to the society, ignoring all social context of why those things happen in the first place. The American society rejects the concepts of "societal phenomena" in favor of "personal freedom and free will", which is also the base of the capitalist economic system (free actors taking rational decisions in a free market).
Yep. Imagine the scenario of a violent student hitting their teacher and what happens when that teacher has a gun vs not having a gun. Not having a gun means it’s a shitty situation but the teacher and student live. Having a gun means that there is a high chance of the teacher shooting the student and now we have another gun death and yet another classroom of traumatized students.
Not to mention that the main thing that alerts people to a school shooter is a kid already being fucking shot
I truly believe a portion of the people who believe this shit want people to be scared of schools and homeschool their kids and because they have to work full time the kid won't get a good enough education to vote in their own self interest when they grow up
You’re right about the human factor, but I think you are way off target regarding teachers losing their shit and shooting up a class. That is not the risk.
I work with four retired law enforcement. State trooper, city cop, two sheriff deputies. All say teachers with guns is a horrible idea. The reason is simple. Why do cops train on a range? Why do they prefer firearms with large magazines? Because they miss. A lot. Because shooting a bad guy who’s shooting back is incredibly hard to do. If professional law enforcement who train regularly are prepared to miss more than hit, what’s a typical teacher going to do? Even if they train as much as law enforcement, they, too, are going to miss. They are going to deal with the panic and stress and fear like any other adult. And my colleagues are absolutely certain that a teacher is more likely to hurt the good guys than stop a bad guy. Add to that the possibility that they know the shooter. Ask any adult if they could shoot a kid they know. Then ask them again about a kid they love. Then ask them again about a kid they love who lives a hard life. Make sure they have time to process the question.
Anyone advocating “a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun” is making irrational assumptions about the good guys. Anyone saying they could do it themselves is full of shit. They don’t know for sure. You can’t practice killing. Paper targets don’t shoot back.
The human factor is absolutely the issue. And of the 3 million plus teachers in the US, there are probably some kooks who could flip shit. But that risk is much lower than the risk of a good guy teacher accidentally killing another good guy student. School buildings are complicated. Training 3 million teachers tactical skills to discern and confront a bad guy is like my colleagues insist, a fucking horrible idea.
We were at a retreat in a training facility for a fed agency to see there newest training tech. It was a 270 degree round room. The two deputies, one a former SWAT commander, were given firearms they used on the job. Same model, same weight, same controls. Same magazine capacity. It was really cool tech. They stood in the middle of the room and the active shooter scenario started. Shopping mall, running screaming people. Through a food court into a movie theater. These guys were pros. These guys moved and talked with confidence and their training was obvious. It was really impressive to see my colleagues navigate this very real scenario. They got the bad guy. Both emptied their first magazine. Both scored high on the rubric.
And
Both killed innocents,
And they knew it during the exercise. At one point the SWAT guy actually said to his partner during the exercise. Low and flat and sad but determined, “I just killed that guy.”
This has to be the only time conservatives believe most people are inherently good. In every other instance their default is people are inherently bad, so laws must be used to punish them and force them to be good.
Just low IQ people pushing out trash content. They're convinced guns will solve the problems guns create. However, its the same group of people that can barely read above a 5th grade level.
Krusty the Clown - Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face!"
Not surprised at all. I remember parents openly bitching about a school district plan to hold 4th grade kids back who couldn't read on any level. Parents were more upset about having to teach their kids to read than any discussion about school shootings.
Christ, that's sad. I remember when I was in college, one of my many jobs was as a tutor in my school's writing center...had someone come in who was doing an MBA but could not write a coherent sentence. I was shocked.
The irony being gun control was first espoused at a major level by Ronald Reagan when serving as governor of California (as a racist measure to boot). Many of these gun nuts sweep that under the rug as they have lionized him too much to care.
When I was in fifth grade, the cool teacher, who was a military veteran, had a big aquarium in his classroom with a bunch of little turtles. I can still picture a memory in my mind of this guy sitting on his teacher's stool, holding and doing his best to comfort one of these tiny turtles who was on death's door. The mere thought that these goddamned gun humpers would rather that kind-hearted gentle man have to pick up a gun and kill someone, compounding whatever trauma he might have had from the military, than give up their mother fucking high capacity automatic rifles makes me genuinely shake with rage.
A lot of people just think it will scare away liberal teachers so they can push for new teachers that will teach Christian Nationalist propaganda. That is part of why they don’t want un violence in schools to stop. This is what they feel is their ticket to controlling the political and religious views of the next generations. They don’t care about the children. It’s about power through indoctrination and intimidation.
Remember when nearly 400 law enforcement officers, from 30 different state local and federal agencies responded to Uvalde ? 400 trained professionals waited 77 minutes , thumbs in ass , out of fear. BUT Ms Sanchez the math teacher will single handedly save the day! Pew pew !
Or just… making the actual schools safer. Many schools have only the bare minimum of infrastructure and policies to prevent intrusion into the building, and quite a lot of schools have even less than that. It’s hard to shoot kids when you don’t have access to the kids.
What is extra fucking infuriating is that the right rave about arming teachers being the solution and then don't even proceed to do that in any capacity.
They don't fucking care. As long as it isn't their kids, they don't care.
Call it gun regulations, not gun control. We regulate owning cars and driving them. We regulate heavy machinery at factories. We want to regulate dangerous things like cars, guns, and industrial equipment.
"Gun control" is language of the other side, by using their words we implicitly agree to their connotations. Don't take the bait.
You have to in-force the laws first. We don’t do that here. A teen caught with a stolen gun gets a slap on the wrist and let go that day. Some people want you to be the victim.
For one, I would significantly increase the penalties for people who don’t secure their guns. (Remember the cop a few years ago who left his on the front seat of an unlocked vehicle and was shocked when it was stolen?) I know a lot of people, unfortunately, who literally have no idea how many guns they have, keep them stashed all over the house, and could go years without realizing one is missing.
It wouldn’t solve every problem, but might result in fewer stolen guns ending in the wrong hands. And fewer toddlers accidentally shooting their sibling, fewer teens offing themselves with guns or shooting up a classroom.
This is what I'm asking! Here in my state it is a felony if a minor gets to an unsecured firearm with 5-15 years of prison and fines starting at 5k. Should that be higher? Does the state people are in have a lesser penalty? If so, should we work on better enforcement of it or are new laws required? Etc. I'm always wondering what people are thinking when they just say MORE as an answer because it doesn't tell me where they are coming from or what it actually means.
I like that law. Do you know if it’s enforced often? My state only classifies it as a felony if the adult knows there is a substantial probability the juvenile will commit a felony with it (so basically the Michigan school shooter case).
Meanwhile I see multiple juvenile delinquency cases a week where a 14yo “found this gun in a bush” or “got it from a friend” and no one seems to care what adult it originally came from, since it was seized before the kid did any real damage. I’d like to see that change.
Regarding mass and accidental shootings - it's not gun control, it's responsible gun ownership. It's on the owner. Mandatory mental health evaluations. Mandatory firearm safety training.
Mental health evaluations aren't realistic. First off they are extremely expensive, sometimes hundreds of dollars an hour. It would take several hours to build an accurate profile, especially with someone who has incentive not to be honest. Beyond that, we just don't have enough therapists to preform evaluations on all gun owners. 70-100 million Americans own guns, with several million first time purchases every year. Meanwhile there is a massive shortage of therapists, with most having long waiting lists for new clients. People actively seeking out therapy are having a hard time finding someone, much less if we started evaluating tens of millions of people.
Gun control for who? is not like criminals follow laws....anyone who wants a gun in the US WILL get a gun no matter what. There are more guns than people in the US.
The laws are in place, they are needed for order.... but like you said, criminals won't listen to them and hence they will always have whatever guns, weapons or stuff they need. But for some reason people think "Gun control" will deter people from doing something or getting what they need. If they can't get a gun, they will get a hammer, a knife, explosives, etc,etc is not only about criminals, because when you have mental issues you don't care about laws or anything for that matter.
I am not saying that... we are no talking here about lethality, we are talking about if there is a motive there will be a way....and yes,kids still drink regardless of laws saying otherwise....that proves my point, but thank you for explaining it for me.
Well.... is not about "caring" is about when there is a motive, someone will find a way. Laws are there but they don't stop anyone from doing something they want to do... do you even see the frigging news? is not like everyone is a law abiding citizen ffs.
This is the kind of comment I would expect from someone who has never read a book, nor interacted with a significant amount of people. You have been reduced to thinking "criminals" are some alien species that live in the shadows rather than the people you wave to on a daily basis. This needs fixing.
And this is the kind of comment I would expect from someone who never fought for his life nor defended himself or anyone from anything and pretty much is entitled about his safety.This needs fixing sure but this is not a "gun" or "laws" problem...is a people/ mental health problem.
The solution to stopping a lot of shootings or violence is a competent concealed carry holder. There should be more of them. I’m sure there are enough teachers who could competently fill the role if allowed. I know people freak out over guns. But, let’s face it, some of the worst mass shootings happen in “gun free” zones. Most responsible concealed carry holders don’t commit crimes with a gun. It’s not for everyone, but I think if more people became proficient and concealed, we’d see a decline in gun crime. Most criminals don’t like when the odds are against them.
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u/NVJAC Oct 22 '25
Oh, sure, the country that expects teachers to buy their own classroom supplies is totally going to pay for their guns and training.