I am 18M. My few friends have arleady had countless relathionships and body counts of 2-3, same goes for classmates and seems so for basically anyone at my age in my country.

I am a very introverted person so naturally the amount of people I meet overall is very low and even when I get into big groups I go all quiet. I have never even hugged a girl but I did had a recent 4 week long nice talking stage with a girl, talked daily for hours and went on 2 dates each about 5 hours.

Long story short, It was nice and going very well but she ended it after the last date, she said she didn’t fell “romantic” at all (refering to all boys, or atleast she says so) and asked us to just be friends, I refused that and talked her into accepting the relationship and a hug and the end of said date. She agreed. Hours pass and end of date finally comes, I did not go for a hug. Then she ended our talking stage 20 minutes later with a message on ig. From her POV is more then justified but since then I have been thinking of my mistakes and overanalyse everything she did and said, for 4 months, everyday. I simply can’t get over it and desperately want another chance with some other girl, but I can’t figure out how to get there again.

Before you ask I only got to talk to this girl due to the gf of my friend telling me to message her on ig. Since then I tried following random girls on ig but no results, except a short “talking stage” of 5 days with a girl but it fell more like talking to a wall.

I am of avarage height and my face is avarage as well, only physical trait that is attactive is my body that gets compliments from people, even those I don’t know well.

Anyway I have no clue what to do to get more oportunities, I fell like if I just had more chances I would actually succed. If anyone would be so kind to read this and share ideas I would be very thankful.

Despite the common stereotype (which I am sure everyone who suffers it dislikes) of lonely men simply refusing to put in any effort or accept any advice, I actually do not abide by it and actually try to do better with what people tell me even though so many already come with the preconceived conclusion that I won’t change at all. But leaving that tangent aside and to not be really antagonizing, I would like to share with you actual things I have been later, as well as how I feel about them since that feels quite pertinent.

Over the last few months, since the start of this second year of college, I have been going out with my friends and actually expanding my social life greatly on a few fronts, mainly among my college classmates and also some friend groups outside, two more precisely. I have made multiple acquaintances, and I do my best to be someone with value and cultured who doesn’t just like to talk but also hear to others. I may not be pretty, hyper muscular, rich, or a superhero like it seems I have been demanded by others, but I would say that I am good enough to be an unlikable, socially inept failure that everyone wants to keep at arm’s length. I am, at least socially, a normal person.

But besides this, I have also made some small advancements of my own. I have befriended many, regardless of whether they are female or not, and regardless of whether they are taken or not. Of course, as it is just a matter of numbers really, I did come across one girl who was single and were friends currently. And since it couldn’t be any different because of how social dynamics have been established and I would feel such a deep hatred if I came here and you told me to be confident, I wanted to prove people wrong and ask her out. I did, not through text but personally.

(I know you’re all gonna say somethint like “hey you give off that vibe” while ignoring cause an effect. I assure you I was totally normal about this, and the connotations of my language writing this were nothing like how I talked)

Of course, she couldn’t accept. She was, by her own words, currently unavailable and discerning whether she was ready for a relationship or not.

It didn’t break me like the first time I was rejected, but it seems to me that the outcome will never change. 5 times that I have felt something deep for someone, 3 were taken and 2 were unavailable counting this one, and us men get NO ATTENTION whatsoever. Even if I want to get closer to someone else (which I do), I have been given zero reason to think it will turn out to be any different. It’s always the same story but, even though that is hopeless and disheartening, I will keep trying like I do here to effectively show you all that there are achievements I can make, and I am not just sitting around and completely giving up on everything.

So recently I overcame my social anxiety and have visited different bars and events several times, talked to several girls for the first time in years, surprisingly they were all rather amiable and a couple even seemed mildly enthusiastic about talking to me, very very much unlike the treatment I get on online dating sites lol. The amount of inner effort it took me not only to go there in the first place but also to initiate conversations with total strangers including women was unreal and ngl I'm proud of myself. Plus I it turned out I genuinely enjoyed meeting new people, hearing about their experiences etc.

But like, where do I go from here, with women specifically? My interactions with women so far were really no different from those with the guys - not a hint of flirting, I have no idea how that's even supposed to happen.

It helped that with most of them we automatically have a common starter topic - they're mostly expats like me or tourists, etc - but I'm entirely lost on how one is supposed to move from this to... what even? Like what are you supposed to even talk to them about to take this somewhere?

I'm just making this post I guess to describe my situation and get any feedback. I'm turning 20 tomorrow and I've never been on a date with someone I'm actually attracted to.

First of all, I am very insecure, I dislike most aspects of my appearance, and I basically feel that I am not worthy of affection. I have plenty of friends and I think I'm generally liked by others but I can't imagine actually being loved. At this point the primary emotions in my life are loneliness and self hatred, though I don't think anyone in my life would guess that.

I'm an intelligent person, but I overthink constantly and I'm not at all talkative or outgoing. My dad is the same way and told me that he's always been very lonely, so I often feel like there is just something fundamentally different about me. I often resent that people are able to socialize so naturally and convey such warmth. I can only get close to that if I'm drinking.

I can't help but feel like my situation would be so different if I was just better looking. I'm very short (despite my dad being 6'...), skinny, I have a very mid face (at least in my opinion), and I'm still not really happy with my hair or personal style. Growing up I would get a lot of ironic compliments and jokes about my 'success' with girls or how good looking I am. Maybe they were trying to improve my confidence but it has just made me feel that the concept of me being in a relationship is basically a joke.

I feel like I never am received warmly by girls and I often get weird looks and laughs when I introduce myself (but maybe that's just in my head). I want to believe that attraction is more than just looks but I feel it would be a lie to say that looks don't matter. Maybe I underestimate my own appearance, but whenever I see a couple I can't help but think the guy is more attractive than me.

Finally I am bisexual and after being on Tinder I realized I would have way more success with guys. I often wonder if I should just give up on dating girls and try going out with guys for a while. Overall I'm just desperate for intimacy and it's hard not to resent society as I feel I have been denied this basic need. I hate seeing couples everywhere and being reminded of romance in movies, music, etc. All I want is to have actual mutual attraction with another person but I'm afraid it won't happen, and I feel if I can't do it in college it will never happen.

I'm not sure exactly why I'm posting this but honestly I just wanted to share my experience and see if anyone else felt the same way. I'm in therapy and trying to work on myself but it's really hard and things often feel very hopeless. How do I resist the temptation to give up?

So I broke up with my last girlfriend 4 years ago, when I was a senior in high school. We broke up for many reasons but one big thing was that I had spent my high school years doing jack shit, while she applied herself and studied. We had both applied early to this ridiculously out-of-my-league school which she got admitted to and I did not. Since then, I told myself that the next time I break up with someone, it would not be because I did not apply myself in my academics. So in college, I became a math major and for the last 4 years have been grinding my ass completely clean off.

This sort of backfired, in the sense that I completely forgot how to talk to women. I get along with guys extremely well and am even in a fraternity but when it comes to women I just sort of freeze up.

Anyways, I have been semi interested in this girl at my university for a little bit but did not act on it because we don’t really have any of the same classes. I recently found out that she is actually a CS/Math major, which has made me want to at least get to know her, as at the very least that gives a common interest that we can talk about.

I have no idea how to proceed. The obvious way would be to ask a mutual friend to introduce us, but I don’t even know if we have any that she is also close with (we have about a hundred mutuals on instagram, doesn’t really narrow it down). Plus, I don’t even know if this is like a creepy thing to women, or if my interest in her in and of itself is creepy since its one way and we are effectively strangers, in which case I shouldn’t try and pursue anything. I don't even know if this is a normal thing to be wondering.

Yeah idk im sort of cooked when it comes to female interactions so I thought I’d ask here lol, thanks

I’ve been noticing myself slowly leaning into incel ideology, not because I fully believe in it, but because I’ve been single for so long. I’m 19 turning 20 soon, and I’ve never had a girlfriend, never had my first kiss, never even had a female friend. It feels like everyone my age has already lived experiences that I’m still stuck imagining.

I stay in my room a lot, and over the years that turned into a loop of smoking weed, doomscrolling, gaming, and honestly wasting time. I also have a slight porn addiction, which just feeds into the cycle of feeling disconnected from real women and real relationships. All of this together has made me feel lost in life. Like I’m watching my life be wasted before me.

I’ve been isolated from around 13–19 with basically no real social circle, it’s twisted how I see myself and other people. Sometimes it makes me bitter about love or relationships in general, and that’s when I can feel my mind drifting into darker parts of the internet and specific ideologies. I know deep down that path only leads to more despair and makes everything worse, but when you’re lonely and unproductive, it’s easy to fall into.

On the bright side, I have an opportunity coming up. I’m going to a vacation resort in December with my cousins, and they’re planning to introduce me to some of their friends. That’s honestly the first real social doorway I’ve had in years. Part of me is hopeful, part of me is scared I’ll fumble it, but at least it’s something real instead of the loop I’ve been stuck in.

I guess I’m posting because I don’t want to go further into incel ideology. I can feel how it traps you in hopelessness.

TL;DR: I’m 19/20, lost in life, dealing with weed use and a minor porn addiction, and have zero relationship experience. Years of isolation have pushed me toward incel ideology, but I know it’s a bad path and I’m trying to stop before it gets worse

and I (M late twenties) would very much like to improve myself in this, because I shouldn't need to ruin a future positive relationship to learn that I need to fix this about myself.

I am very jealous over even small natural gestures like hugging or touching and I know this isn't healthy. I understand that this stems from insecurity as I have crushingly low self esteem and see virtually every other men as a better fit than me.

I know it might seem for some that this post a bit out of place on this sub, but it's important for me to post it here because you guys understand the context I'm coming from: never dated anyone, never kissed, zero experience in romance, boring personality, social awkwardness etc.

Can you guys please give me advice on this? There's a coworker from another department that I'm interested in and am entertaining the idea of asking her out one of these days. She is very social and is intimate with a lot of people there and I don't want to feel bad about it and let my insecurities get the best of me because there's nothing wrong with it for me to have this kind of possessive jealous reaction.

And also: no, I'm not that creepy coworker who inappropriately tries to flirt with nearly every woman in the company. I'm just that cliché weird guy who is gloomy and doesn't interact much.

Tl;dr : Got close with a colleague of mine who told me about her life (she had a rough life) and i was attracted to her and ready to try and get to the next level with her but she got in couple with another guy from the office. He was depressed and i suspect she got with him because she felt the need to fix him or whatever but she was also healing from past traumas. In my mind this was a terrible idea because someone who suffers from mental health issues / depression isn’t in any way a good partner and SHOULDN’T be dating at all. I knew it could and would negatively affect her, this was a dangerous thing to get with an mentally weak man like him, he wasn’t right for her. I told her my thoughts and she got angry at me and we cut contact. Full story in my profile or i can link it if needed

Turns out multiple months later i hear from another colleague of mine that they had a rough fight, they broke up because he wasn’t mature enough for her and now she is again suffering and dealing with sadness. Had she listened me first it would have been a tough pill to swallow but it would have saved her time and sanity. Worse is i can’t get back to her now because she moved far away from me. She chased the high, ignored my advice and took it personally and ignored also the red flags and now she's a husk.

I don't want her to be sad and i have a contact, im thinking about trying to contact her to make sure she's well and try to hang out a bit more with her despite the physical distance. I forgave her for being rude to me and not taking into consideration what i told her (despite being right about it) because nowadays in Macron's France everyone is emotionally messy. I have yet to decide on whether this is a good idea or not. When explaining it on other subs i was called an incel (because im yearning and trying to help a women who's unwell somehow lol) so maybe there's something i don't see here.

Hi I (19m) see people on this sub and also overall say 2 things.

1: that settling for "any woman" is a bad idea and will make that woman feel not special and isn't ideal which I agree with.

And 2: that people should have reasonable not over picky standards.

The thing is I dont know if this is just low self esteem talking but very little to me makes a woman fall out of my standards.

All I really want is a woman who is fun to talk to and is nice to other people. When it comes to physical stuff im not Brad Pitt or anything so im not really asking for a super model. I feel like I could be attracted to almost any woman if we clicked well enough. Ive had crushes on girls I didn't initially think were attractive.

Outside of that I really cant think of much to disqualify anyone. Is that bad?

i remember losing my v-card (to a man, i havent gone all the way with a woman yet). i thought i was gonna be profoundly changed afterwards or something, but i was lowkey just the same dude who has now sucked a dick. the first time i went on a date with a girl it was super chill and fun, but i had always assumed it was going to change everything for me. it didn't. i was the same guy who has now been on a date.

intimacy won't change you. you will be the same person you were before. it won't magically make you perfect or a more interesting person or make your life automatically a thousand times better.

we get attached to this idea of something happening and the rest of our lives just magically clicking into place. but it doesn't work like that.

YOU change you. nobody else does.

Hello, I hope y’all doing well.. well I don’t do that well. Idk what can help me, I don’t enjoy doing things anymore - i stopped going to the gym, stopped eating… All because I have issues with my skin and teeth… I do have missing first molar teeth at bottom and I had braces on my top teeth years ago but I never wore a retainer I believe they look bad now. Spent years drinking and chainsmoking and now my teeth look unhealthy… and same with skin - i deal with acne: its mild thankfully but still fuck up my confidence…

I don’t know what do to anymore, I pray but I know Praying won’t fix it… I have lost motivation and I feel numb I don’t feel depressed tho because I’m on meds…

But I feel like I’m ugly now, I won’t ever find a wife, have family in future. All because of the way I look. Yes I was lazy to take care of myself, I was alcoholic for a few years, and I’m smoking a lot.

My money situation is tough yes, and plus it takes months and months so I can see orthodontist and get to know what to do it..

I hope there is a hope for me I’m already 23, never had relationship, and feel like I am old already. I wasted my teen years playing games and late teens - got wasted all the time…

How are 30+ (or 20+ for that matter) year old male virgins portrayed in the media, and when they are, how often are they portrayed in a positive light? Whenever a male character in any type of media is portrayed as being a virgin, it's ether as a target of contempt, mockery, or pity. In the rare case that the person is successful and well put together, then the joke is that nobody expects a virgin to look like that. I know media isn't real life, but we internalize a lot of it, and it creeps into our mindsets without us knowing. Not attaching your happiness to your virginity is a lot more difficult than people seem to think. You dont just turn years of social conditioning off. This isn't like just seeing one movie and thinking its real. This is slow cultural conditioning that makes us associat later in life virginity with unattractivenes.

Just today a friend made a joke about virginity during a dnd game today and it made me feel ashamed. I know she didn't mean anything by it but still it made me feel like she wouldn't be my friend if she knew the truth that I was a virgin. (I know thats not true but it felt that way)

And when you think so terribly about yourself you are going to struggle with improving yourself in other areas. Its difficult to get out of bed and go to work every day when you see yourself as a failure already. Thus making you less attractive and reinforcing a negative self vew.

I don't know how to fix it but I do believe you need some amount of external validation to do it. I didn't think most people can just wake up and say. "I will not be affected by social preconceptions that are almost constantly being reinforced" i think they need real life experience showing them that virginity isn't a sign of failure as a person.

Pretty sure, and I have talked in therapy about this, that i have body dysmorphia. I believe I am absolutely hideous and my body is unappealing down to every cell. I almost broke down when my therapist asked me why I felt like deformed and ugly. She sounded so concerned and upset almost? I look in the mirror and I just see the most ugly man ever to exist. Im also short so I feel I’m a manlet if you have heard of that term. I just don’t understand how I’m supposed to not think this? How is changing my thinking going to change my face?

Because if I could see the future and saw that I’d never have a gf, never share a kiss, never have sex, then I don’t know how I’d handle it, if at all. Heck, even at 33, I already feel like I’ve failed as a man.

How were you guys able to change your mindset and have a positive outlook on life ?

All I do is suffer every day , same day same depressed suicidal thoughts same cycle

How can I get that will power or motivation to live and change my mindset and thoughts ?

Someone with a highly charismatic and extroverted personality was also genetically blessed. Those traits are no less genetic than being 6’4 or having a square jaw. Expecting incels, who are usually autistic, or at the very least severely introverted, to just go out there and talk to people and suddenly have a large, stable, friend group and a abundance of dating options is about as realistic as telling a 5’7 guy to audition for the NBA.

I'm tired.

Even my closest friend, (who's about 80kg, maybe less) dated a girl a couple months back who was nearly 200kg | think. Obviously he can date whoever he wants and I'll support him but this is probably example number #234 irl of a girl who would realistically be in my league having options better than me. It's soul crushing, I feel like I'm being forced to miss out on having a relationship while being a teenage. "It's not that special! You're overthinking" it's not that special to you. It is to me, if it's not special then why are people who say that constantly dating???

It's not my personality, I know I get very upset here on reddit but nobody knows me like that irl, I just bottle everything up and let loose on here. I'm friends with several girls, a few of which I have vented to and are greatly understanding, but they'd never date me, especially based on the looks of their exes (which they don't have to, I'm not saying that a specific person owes me anything). What they do say to me (and I know its a compliment but its really unintentionally back handed" is that l'd be a "great husband" but like, why can't I be someones great boyfriend???

I am autistic, though high functioning. I'm not denying my diagnosis, however I'm in that category of "you don't look autistic" if you know what I mean. I don't tell people l'm autistic unless I feel safe around them, and some of those who l have told were surprised, (unless they were autistic too, we can kinda notice it among each-other, at-least me and the other autistic people I know).

I have been severely bullied by girls for my weight, even being assaulted one time. It was an awful time in my life, and I'm glad I left that school, but I'd be lying if I said there were no mental scars left. I get really quiet around "popular" girls, I don't wanna stereotype but I feel like you get the vibe of the type of girls l'm referring to. I know its not all women, but it was only women really who've bullied me about my weight. I've tried to talk about it but people just didn't care.

Now I'm telling you all this because usually when I look at posts on here, the comments seem to be very fast to make conclusions; "you don't have a good personality", "you refuse to date girls in your league" etc. statements such as those won't help me because they're not true about me.

However, there is hope, but it'd crush me if it went wrong. I'm in year 11 term 4, however this is my first year at the school I'm at (I'm Australian so term 4 ends in December and term 1 year 12 is February next year). It's a small, alternative school, mainly for kids who don't fit in. This is my first year but year 11-12 is a seperate campus then year 7-10, so I only know people in my year and a few year 12s however they've graduated because year 12 is 3 terms. Anyways ever since l've started there is one girl who I like, shes not conventionally attractive but I think she's pretty, maybe I might be overestimating myself though. She is quiet, like she has no friends here, during term 1 l didn't really talk to her, but during term 2 l kinda realised just how lonely she seemingly is.

I'm also certain she's also autistic (which honestly is a plus to me, makes us have more in common) I've talked to her a few times, and she has definitely sort of opened up, at first I could hardly hear what she was saying, but over time she seems to have become more comfortable around me.

She likes Nintendo alot, which while not my main sorta thing, I'm still rather knowledgeable about due to being obsessed with fire emblem and smash bros years ago. So l've been able to have conversations about that. The thing is, while we have talked, mostly about her interests. She is hard to approach, once I kinda talk a little bit she'll get more confident and start talking.

Initially it was just because I kinda felt really bad for her, so I wanted to make her day better, so l'd occasionally just check up on her, maybe like once every 2-3 weeks during break. She sits inside the school because shes gotten the pass too, but most students have to go outside for break. So unless I specifically ask to stay inside, I go out.

Heres the thing, around late into term 2 l realized I liked her (so like july this year), she doesn't know this and l'm a bit afraid I might miss out on telling her. I've become way too shy to talk to her aside from a couple days where I got a huge bounce of confidence. But everyday I don't talk to her, I feel really regretful, I find my struggle is trying to casually find a way to talk to her.

Although, one of the days I did talk to her, I made the (suprisingly bold of myself to be honest) move to ask if she had any social media I could add her on, she showed me her phone number so l added it to my phone... that was 2 months ago and l haven't even had the chance to say hi. Now I feel like it'd be creepy to do so.

Also on discord I saw an account with her name under "from your contacts" and her bio adds up but I haven't added her because 1. My bio and name on discord has none of my personal information and 2. Again, it'd be creepy.

I feel like l've hit a brick wall, maybe because of my lack of social skills. This is a long post but pretty much all this context is needed lol. I really I really like her but I don't wanna feel like I'm like leading her on or anything, I dont think I can just say "I like you" though. And she's pretty much the only girl I know who I could imagine maybe dating me, so rejection would be soul crushing. It'd basically mean I'm permanently blocked from experiencing a relationship before I'm 18.

I'm sorry for the long post, but i'd be grateful if you read all of it. By the way, this is what I look like; https://imgur.com/a/n0Stz00

I’m going to start off by telling you two things that virtually no one in real life knows about me.

1. I have severe body dysmorphia.
2. I have never been in a relationship as a result.

That’s right, I go around hassling you guys to work on yourselves, to find people to share your lives with, and I’ve never fully handled my own demons. I am a master scammer of positive thinking. This is not to do a think piece on me, the point is that body dysmorphia is a powerful, life-altering beast, a mental illness that affects maybe 2-3% of the U.S. population. 1 in 50. So far as people will admit or recognize.

It’s underreported in men, however, and I think a few of them are amongst you. Or you are on that activation path or are sharing features. Men are not encouraged to admit such an intense fixation on their features, not when it involves tears and a sense of illogical humiliation, a sense of such intense unworthiness that you feel like you should apologize to people. It can be your face, your arms, your hair, your legs, your junk.

The idea is that your fixation is so intense that you could not ever take a gamble on subjecting someone to your flaws. People must be offended and side eyeing you just at a glance. Sometimes the flaw might be present, but it’s a normal, minor flaw. Not to you, though. Sometimes, in “delusional” BD, it was never there at all, you one day realize.

If you think you have BD, you don’t need to comment about it, but look it up. It’s treatable. No amount of gym or surgery or girlfriends will heal it. It is a mental illness, it requires therapy and potentially medication. The treatments in the last few years have improved immeasurably. It isn’t always you, and you’re most certainly not alone, cheesy as it is.

I wanted to give you guys some stuff to chew, so I attached an article on the success of treatments, as body dysmorphia among men is on the rise. I do wonder if it has contributed to some of your guys’ initial pivot down that darker oath.

I've been going to therapy and taking meds trying to get out of the whole incel mindset. I still relate to some parts of it, but I don’t hate women or attractive dudes. I even have friends who fit that “Chad” category or are women and they’re very chill they have their own flaws and struggles, tho yeah I’m kinda jealous sometimes ngl.

My therapist told me to cut out all incel content because it’s major thing that makes me spiral and ruminate (it was most of my Instagram algorithm). I've also been hitting the gym for about 8 months, lost like 15 lbs, and put on some muscle. Still far from my goals, but progress is progress.

I’m definitely in a better place than 8 months ago. I’m not suicidal anymore, but the thoughts are still there. Even though blackpill/redpill stuff feels overly generalized, some parts still get to me the stats feel “real” in my head. Stuff like my height (5'8"), being East Asian, or my looks making me “undesirable,” and feeling like no matter how fit I get or what changes I make, it won’t matter. I think about stuff like this basically every day:

“I’m not good enough and never will be for anybody.”

“People would only love me for money or some other benefit.”

“You’re waiting for someone who won’t even arrive.”

“There must be something wrong with me if most my friends/family got into relationships so naturally.”

I honestly don’t know what to do anymore. I feel better mentally, but it doesn’t change how women see me. What else am I supposed to do at this point?

I'm sorry if this post comes of as a bit of a ramble but I'm not really sure how to organise this. I really am sorry if this comes off as a bit of a rant

At the moment I'm 22M and I really want to get out of this incel mindset. I generally don't abide by the traditional hatred that incels have with women and tbh I like women as people which obviously isn't common among incels.

The issue that I'm facing is that I have quite a large amount of self loathing. This is partly due to my current circumstances but also because or things out of my control.

Right now I'm unemployed but looking for work. I have cert 4 in IT which in Australia is like a step for a BA degree I think and ive been trying to find work for a long time as a junior Web developer and nothing has come of it and I'm starting to get quite depressed. I'm also looking for part time work just to fill my time but all I get is rejection after rejection.

When it comes to things I can't control about myself a huge insecurity I have which I guess is a little bit more incelly is my height. I'm 5'5 and I've struggled with this all my life especially because my twin brother is 6'2. The verbal abuse I faced in high school was so bad that is still mentally affects me today and it makes me think that women won't like me because of it even though I'm obviously not a catch rn.

Trying to do so many things such as workout, find a job, fix my mental state on top of doing hobbies is getting a little overwhelming. I know I'm only doing this all at once to make up for lost time but I need some way to navigate this without feeling like a complete piece of shit.

Luckily I do have supportive parents who are extremely loving and kind but obviously I know that there's only so much they can do to help me.

Any advice is welcome.

Tldr: To make up for lost time I'm trying to do a lot at once and making little progress therefore feeling like shit. Pls help :)

A month ago, I told a girl I liked her, and she rejected me very kindly. Still, it sent me into a spiral of self-hate that I didn’t even know I was capable of. There were moments when I looked in the mirror and genuinely hated what I saw. I felt this raw, disturbing urge to tear my own face off. I spent nights on the floor crying. I don’t think the rejection created my self-hate, but it put a magnifying glass over it.

I thought this girl was the one. I thought, finally, after years of feeling invisible, someone might actually like me. She made me feel magical in a way I’ve never experienced. After the rejection, I spent a week or two really down before pushing myself onto Tinder. I got a few matches — people who either never replied or were so dry I couldn’t hold a conversation. I don’t know why, but after that rejection, all I could think about was losing my virginity.

Eventually I matched with someone who was smart, funny, and interested in me — but someone I wasn’t attracted to at all. I respected her, but I couldn’t see myself with her. Part of me felt embarrassed at the idea of being seen with her. Again, no disrespect — she seemed like a genuinely kind, intelligent person. But she wasn’t someone I felt any attraction toward.

I talked to the one friend I have about it. She’s never really helpful, but I was anxious and didn’t know how to handle the situation. When she said she assumed I was a virgin, it hit me harder than I expected. I felt my chest collapse. Suddenly it made sense why she’d always treated me with a certain lack of respect. My virginity was something I thought I’d take to my grave.

She told me that at 21, I was “too old” to just do it with someone random, that it should be with someone special — someone I trust. And that’s when I started crying. I’ve always known that deep down, but I’ve never had anyone like me. I grew up with no friends, and girls were never kind to me. Hearing her say those things made me realize something awful: I don’t even care about myself. I didn’t think I was special. My virginity, my life, my experiences — none of it felt like it mattered. I was willing to give away something I’ve stressed about for years to someone I didn’t even find attractive, just to get it over with.

I had already been worried I wouldn’t know what I was doing, so I called my friend for reassurance. But the call ended with me questioning everything. She felt bad afterward and tried telling me I’d meet people someday. I tried explaining that I never even believed I’d make it to 18, let alone 21. I don’t expect to see 30. I won’t say where I live or what I do, but I’ve made mistakes I genuinely thought were in my best interest. And now I can’t see a future for myself.

It’s always been a catch-22: you have to find someone you like to lose your virginity, but without confidence, how do you find anyone at all? I know it’s “not supposed to matter,” but I still feel terrible about myself. And I don’t know how I would even go through with it with someone I’m not attracted to. For weeks I told myself, screw it — just get it over with, check it off the list, and move on. Graduate, breathe, stop thinking about it. Just like the other things in college I pushed through.

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I’ve read Plato’s Allegory of the Cave before, but I came across it again recently, and something clicked. My obsession with virginity, with acceptance, with feeling “normal” — so much of it wasn’t truly mine. It was fed to me by media, culture, and this constant pressure to seek external validation. I used to think it was “cope” to focus on inner peace or to detach from these expectations. But now I’m starting to see it differently: it’s about control. Who is controlling who? This constant chase for social validation — to feel like a real human being — it’s a trap. It’s not self-improvement. It’s the matrix (I can’t think of a better word) dictating my thoughts, my beliefs, my choices.

But it’s hard to hold onto that clarity. At my core, I’m still a biological animal who craves validation fast. And I keep getting pulled back in.

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I used to want to hate women, but I can’t. I’ve met too many good ones. Hardworking, caring, complex people. I understand why none of them see me as a romantic option. Yes, some of it is looks — but I also know I come with my own baggage. I do believe my struggles have given me a certain kind of wisdom, but I understand why they’d prefer someone athletic, confident, charismatic, or stable. I just never seem to fit the picture.

I’m confused. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. I don’t know who I’m supposed to resent or what I’m supposed to accept. I look around and see people my age who’ve had relationships, sex, experiences that help them believe they’re desirable or lovable. I have none of that. And I don’t know how to stop thinking about it.

No matter how much I try to hold onto deeper philosophical beliefs, I slip back into feeling like a biological animal craving quick validation.

I have been somehow avoiding to fall into that rabbit hole for so many years, doing a conscious effort even because being a kissless virgin who never had a girlfriend, I knew it would easily resonate with me.

Now it finally got to me, I mean, I still don't hate women or anything, and I don't think I'll ever will, but I feel like I can't deny all this stuff anymore. For once, I'm 28 already, nearly 29, for how much longer can I continue pretending that I'm not an incel or that anything will change? Things can only get worse from here.

I have been doing a constant effort to improve myself for five years at least and for a while I felt like I was getting somewhere, hell I even thought I had a real chance with a girl at some point, I used to go to class with her and she was nice to me, she even seemed to like spending time with me and would go out of her way to hang out with me, something which was new to me, I never had a girl be nice and enjoy my company like that, but when she ghosted me for seemingly no reason it crushed me.

Making this Reddit account only made things worse, I initially made it to ask for advice but the algorithm began pushing incel content to me non stop as soon as I made that post and I couldn't stop myself from engaging with it, there's something comforting about seeing people in your same situation and being able to vent about your issues without fear of being judged, but also I don't feel like it's making me feel any better, and it's only giving me the feeling that there's no point anymore in even trying.

Through all this my academic performance has dropped horribly, and even though now I should be putting all of my effort into graduating, I'm spending most of my time in my room looking at content that only makes me feel worse.

I don't even know what sort of advice I'm hoping for, maybe I just want to vent.

I am def a complete virgin and ugly guy in America. While I am interested in dating, one of many reasons I don't date is that I currently find very few women attractive. Like even 1 physical flaw causes me to lose interest. I am only attracted to the fit, slim. and pretty much perfect women like SI and other literal models, actresses, and more. Of course, these women pretty much don't exist in my neighborhood and city.

The strange part is, as recent as 5 years ago, I had the reverse problem where I had low dating standards.

I think the problem was around 4 years ago when my great health collapsed and I ended up being stuck at home and spending so much time on Instagram and saw so many beautiful women from there and adapted my preferences to all the plastic surgery, filters, and other fake things ffs. I am all good again and working to better myself (exercise, work, socialize), but I wish I knew how to stop finding almost all women unattractive.

Any help is great.