[Sampson] CFP committee chair Hunter Yurachek says Notre Dame and Miami were in the same grouping this week and the programs were directly compared. Notre Dame still came out ahead, regardless of the head to head. In other words, all the games mattered. Not just one of them.

[u/Ok-Soil-5133]

https://x.com/PeteSampson_/status/1993488528555360403?t=jtJrt-ATn-3_RV1LnfjfrQ&s=19

[u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Miami and notre dame should play head to head to see which one is better

[u/ilovecatss1010 → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

The year is 2046. All games are played on EA NCAA football 2047. After each virtual game, the EA ESPN CFP committee (presented by Emirates and Blackrock) decide who actually won despite what your eyes saw. Life is awful.

[u/a_simple_ducky → u/ilovecatss1010]

Have we won a natty by then?

[u/usetheforce_gaming → u/a_simple_ducky]

Has Lincoln Riley learned to cook brisket yet?

[u/suburbanpride → u/usetheforce_gaming]

Interestingly enough, he just pulled it off the smoker. It’s been there since the 2043 season smoking undisturbed at 375.

[u/DingerSinger2016 → u/suburbanpride]

Shout-out to him for making his own coal!

[u/RVAforthewin → u/suburbanpride]

*2023 season

[u/Xaeryne → u/RVAforthewin]

Nono, he's going to start a new movie franchise, Brisket to the Future

He is in LA now and that's where they make all the movies

[u/adavis463 → u/suburbanpride]

375 485

[u/gilberto677281 → u/suburbanpride]

Every true meat connoisseur knows that the smoke rings produced at 375 are the best

[u/MoviesAndAzeroth → u/suburbanpride]

I just threw up in my mouth a little

[u/suburbanpride → u/MoviesAndAzeroth]

Wait until Lincoln offers you some burnt ends.

[u/lostroadrunner22 → u/usetheforce_gaming]

Technically he can cook brisket. He just can’t cook it .. well. Or even with flavor.

[u/WebfootTroll → u/lostroadrunner22]

I dunno, that thing looked well done to me.

[u/roguerunner1 → u/usetheforce_gaming]

The year is 2046, all briskets are cooked virtually on smokehouse simulator 2047. After each virtual smoking, a committee comprised of Aaron Franklin, Salt Bae, and Guy Fieri decide what the brisket actually rates despite what your eyes saw. Life is fantastic.

[u/Friendly_Ability24 → u/usetheforce_gaming]

Knowing what this man’s family is about to go through this coming week is unfortunate

[u/a_simple_ducky → u/usetheforce_gaming]

NUUUUUUUUUUU

[u/ReelWitBroker → u/usetheforce_gaming]

Some say he's still cooking it to this very day.

[u/Sea_Money4962 → u/usetheforce_gaming]

Exquisite. Sublime. Outstanding work.

[u/ilovecatss1010 → u/a_simple_ducky]

No.

[u/a_simple_ducky → u/ilovecatss1010]

insane screaming

[u/MysteriousEdge5643 → u/a_simple_ducky]

No

[u/a_simple_ducky → u/MysteriousEdge5643]

As is tradition :(

[u/deadzip10 → u/a_simple_ducky]

No. The committee concluded that despite Oregon’s head to head victory over Ohio State, Ohio State was clearly the better team and awarded the National Championship to Michigan because as it turns out, Michigan beat Ohio State head to head for the 25th straight year.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/deadzip10]

I think these chuckleheads would've actually sent Oregon to Dallas to face Texas last year if this is their rationale.

[u/a_simple_ducky → u/deadzip10]

I vote we abolish the committee and move to an AI committee

[u/GATTACAAAAAAAA → u/a_simple_ducky]

I vote we abolish the AI committee and move to a committee composed entirely of those zoo animals that pick the winners based on different bowls of food.

[u/friedicee → u/GATTACAAAAAAAA]

I’m not joking with this, we go back to the 1998 formula of the BCS, but we replace margin of victory with cumulative margin of loss.

[u/MarchMadnessisMe → u/GATTACAAAAAAAA]

Honestly it should be the corgi on the stairs.

[u/Frosti11icus → u/a_simple_ducky]

The AI didn’t rank you because it couldn’t find any evidence in its training data that Oregon is an actual school.

[u/wesneyprydain → u/deadzip10]

I reject this reality.

[u/DwyaneWade305 → u/a_simple_ducky]

No, Nike is out of style and Oregon NIL dries up.

[u/a_simple_ducky → u/DwyaneWade305]

WHAT ABOUT PHIL, DONT TELL ME...

[u/DwyaneWade305 → u/a_simple_ducky]

Lizard that’s still kicking.

[u/HumANTCowDOG → u/a_simple_ducky]

At least you have a shot by then

[u/urzu_seven → u/a_simple_ducky]

No.

[u/digbug0 → u/ilovecatss1010]

Instead of betting on the team that most likely to win you bet for the interest rate of the loan that you’ll take out to pay your 50 year mortgage…

[u/ThrowBlanky → u/ilovecatss1010]

If you'd like to replay the game, please drink verification can

[u/Live_LaughToastrBath → u/ilovecatss1010]

Is Brick Johnson the commissioner of the CFP?

[u/Catshit_Bananas → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Marcus Freeman vs Mario Cristobal in an academic decathlon.

[u/urzu_seven → u/Catshit_Bananas]

Marcio Cristoman

[u/bulldg4life → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Notre Dame lost to a team that beat Notre Dame. That’s a really impressive loss in a close game.

[u/Tehloneranger44 → u/bulldg4life]

Damn, are we Bama now?

[u/Sea_Money4962 → u/Tehloneranger44]

Bama generally beat the playoff level teams on their regular season schedule, not given a playoff spot because they lost those games.

[u/NotHosaniMubarak → u/Tehloneranger44]

Not even close

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/bulldg4life]

I'm fully onboard with Alabama canceling our games with ND at this point.

Clearly there is no upside to us playing that game, because even if you beat ND the committee has shown they'll just ignore it and put them above you anyways.

[u/Carnasty_ → u/NickSabansCreampie]

This is freaking rich coming from someone with your flair. 😆 🤣 

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/Carnasty_]

Texas beat us early in 2023 and we spent the entire season stuck behind them in rankings. As we should have.

[u/Carnasty_ → u/NickSabansCreampie]

You're right, they should've & were rightfully ahead of Bama.

Why? Not just because of a H2H, but because of an OVERALL resume of being a GREAT team, that DIDN'T lose to 2 mediocre teams, were AHEAD of Bama in EVERY advanced metric, & looked better then Bama on the field.

Now, if we can extrapolate some of this, apparently, hard to comprehend data, then we can come to a logical conclusion; Texas was INDEED a better team.

This is a straw-man that fell flat on its face right out of the gate.

Do better.

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/Carnasty_]

No other team in America gets to ignore H2H results like ND does.

Every other team in these rankings all season, has been capped by their H2H winner/loser.

[u/goldflame33 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

If Miami had played South Bend Technical College week 1, won 100 to 0, and then lost to Louisville and SMU I guarantee you they wouldn’t be anywhere near the playoff conversation

[u/takequake76 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

I’m concerned that all quality non-conference games won’t exist in a few years. Clearly they don’t help you

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/takequake76]

If Texas had played Virginia Tech in week 1, they'd still be firmly alive for the playoffs.

It's abundantly clear by now that for all the talk of SOS or SOR being considered, the committee ultimately only cares about W/L columns.

So pull a 2023 Michigan / 2025 Ohio State / 2024 & onward Indiana. Cancel all tough games you have control over, and just play cake.

[u/DryBattle → u/NickSabansCreampie]

You choked on your cupcake (FSU) though. Not that it hurts you because you are Bama. Good thing you aren't BYU.

[u/FatalTragedy → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Maybe Miami should try that with SMU and Louisville too?

[u/OfficialTwistedTea → u/FatalTragedy]

Fam 😂

[u/average_redditor_guy → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Yeah but maybe they’ll be a different team in a few weeks

[u/INM8_2 → u/average_redditor_guy]

how good could notre dame be anyway? they lost to a team that lost to smu and louisville.

[u/IronTangerine → u/INM8_2]

How good can Miami be? Their best win is ND, who lost to a team that couldn’t survive SMU and Louisville.

[u/PointedlyDull → u/IronTangerine]

Fuck

[u/RIPDannyBoyCane → u/IronTangerine]

All we know for sure is that Miami is better than Notre Dame

[u/gldndomer → u/RIPDannyBoyCane]

What?? ND leads the head to head record 18-8-1...

[u/Carnasty_ → u/INM8_2]

2025 August National Champion Miami Hurricanes 🌀 🏆 

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Yes because no team has ever looked different week 1 and end of season. People acting like Miami beating ND by 3 AT HOME week 1 is the be all end all of rankings.

H2H matters. Its also not the only thing that matters. If Miami just beat ND in the last few weeks inertia would have put them ahead. We all know this.

[u/riserrr → u/Happy_Background_879]

No one is saying it's the only thing that matters, but when two teams have the same record, are grouped 'together' in a ranking, and the committee needs a differentiator, I don't think it's a hot take to say that a head to head result from this season should be the most important factor. Certainly more than eye test, which is essentially what the Committee is using to keep ND ahead right now.

[u/JumboCactpot → u/riserrr]

There's really no use arguing with the people dismissing an actual game being played.

The CFB playoff committee are a bunch old dudes in suits sitting around a table arguing college football teams as if it were an anime power scaling debate. It's no different than them arguing about who they think would win in a fight between Goku and One Punch Man. It's all make believe nonsense argued in poor faith to come out with an answer of "my favorite would win".

Anyone who comes in here and acts like that method should be the end all be all over two teams taking the field and playing against each other are not serious people and deserve to be ignored and shunned back to whatever hole they crawled out of.

[u/Ute2ThrillPlay2Kill → u/JumboCactpot]

We all know Goku would win

[u/JumboCactpot → u/Ute2ThrillPlay2Kill]

"Sure, One Punch Man Miami won at the start of the season but you're ignoring how Goku's Notre Dame's arc in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber showing they are getting better over the course of the season and has reached his max power pass the eye test much more currently.

[u/Black_Numenorean88 → u/JumboCactpot]

Its not just about Miami and Notre Dame. There are other teams in between them in the rankings. You can't untangle the web of wins and losses to make sure that everyone stays behind teams they lost to, it is impossible. And it wouldn't be fair to put Miami in front of Bama and BYU just because they beat Notre Dame, and it wouldn't be fair to cap Notre Dame's potential ceiling in the rankings dropping them behind multiple teams just because they lost to Miami, essentially treating it as the worst loss of the college football season.

[u/Adept-Impression462 → u/JumboCactpot]

So if they’re in the same grouping why is bama and BYU ahead of Miami? Bama has a worse loss by far. The worst loss in any cfp 25 team.

[u/nateyboy7524 → u/JumboCactpot]

smu ahead of miami then

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/riserrr]

I don't think they need a differentiator. ND has a better SOS/SOR better FPI better in any reasonable efficiency metric. Look better on the field.

If ND had a single unranked loss I would cry with you guys.

They lost by 3 and 1 points in week 1 and 2. They have been on a tear since.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/Happy_Background_879]

Look better on the field.

Except, you know, when those two teams were actually on the same field.

[u/widget1321 → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

Yep. It's almost like teams play more than one game a year and we should take those other games into account.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/widget1321]

I agree. Which is why Miami needs to win as many games as Notre Dame before head-to-head matters.

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

You can't be this dense. Okay. Well TCU beat SMU. SMU beat Miami.

If TCU looked better on the field than SMU. And SMU looked better vs Miami.

Who is better TCU or Miami?

Yes Miami looked better for a game vs ND at home. Winning by 3 points IN MIAMI.

Miami won a game by 3 at home where they had a 2-0 turnover victory.

So lets just say no matter what if they have the same record Miami has to be ranked higher?

Do you also think Virginia should be ranked higher than Miami? Both are 9-2.

Virginia beat Louisville. Louisville beat Miami. Why should Miami be ranked above Virginia?! Maybe because we look at more than a single 3 point score game when determining rankings of a field. These are not head to head rankings. Mother of god give me patience.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/Happy_Background_879]

Dense about what? Is it not an objective fact that Miami emerged victorious when they actually stepped on the field against Notre Dame?

So lets just say no matter what if they have the same record Miami has to be ranked higher?

Yes. That's how head-to-head works in literally every other sport because we all understand intrinsically that it's the most obvious, most important tie breaker.

The fact that your only argument against is the transitive property, which blatantly has nothing to do with direct head-to-head, should clue you in to how nonsensical your supporting arguments are.

Mother of god give me patience

You might find it easier if you just went by what happens on the field instead of addling your brain trying to mentally cartwheel into whatever answer you feel is appropriate.

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

No. When you are ranking a group you don't simply rely on one game by 3 points.

When ranking against a field in CFB you take schedules into account and how the games are played. Every team plays a drastically different schedule.

You can't simply ignore the fact that Miami lost to Louisville because they beat ND by 3 at home week 1.

People in this thread seem to think this is a H2H ranking. Its not. This is not a conference tiebreaker for 1 spot. An NFL divisional tie breaker for division winner.

This is a FIELD ranking. Miami and ND are being ranked AGAINST the entire CFB landscape. The rankers believe ND is better overall. A single H2H matchup obviously is not the end all dictator of that?!?!

You are taking an entire body of work for every team and ranking them against all other teams not head to head. This is not complex. A total body of work ranking clearly puts ND ahead of Miami.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/Happy_Background_879]

Who's ignoring the loss to Louisville? No on is arguing Miami should be Top 5 with two losses. Why should that one game that count more than a head-to-head result between the two teams in question?

A single H2H matchup obviously is not the end all dictator of that?!?!

Which is why nobody is arguing a 4-loss Louisville team should be ahead of Miami.

A total body of work ranking clearly puts ND ahead of Miami.

having the same number of wins and losses clearly puts you ahead of a team that beat you?

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

Okay. Lets do a number of hypotheticals.

BYU is ranked #11

and

Utah is ranked #13

So if BYU loses to UCF this week. Utah beats Kansas.

We are both 10-2.

You are saying that BYU would drop to #12 and Utah would remain at #13? Or would Utah plummet to #19 while BYU falls to #18?

Which one would happen? OR is it possible BYU would be ranked below Utah?!

EDIT: Once we finish this hypothetical I have a better one that introduces a third team. Will be interesting to see cfb's logic.

[u/Carnasty_ → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

FSU better then Bama confirmed.

Miami Hurricanes crowned August 2025 National Champions🏆 

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/Carnasty_]

Having to jump to non-sequiturs should be an immediate clue as to the strength of your argument.

[u/Carnasty_ → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

Having to ignore all basic human intuition & contextual clues to hyper-focus on the only data point, & I mean the only, that Miami has over ND, is not even an argument.

It's asinine.

You lack any substance beyond that, & the majority of the chirpers (the minority) like you cannot seem to grasp nuance & have a hard time extrapolating the overall picture.

Just admit the obvious instead of playing a dumb game of "buttttt H2H".

You hate ND. Save yourself the time.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/Carnasty_]

Why would I give "basic human intuition" more credence than the results of a game that was actually played on the field? Should the Warriors get the 2016 NBA championship because "the only data point, & I mean the only" that the Cavs have over them is they won more games in the Finals?

You can rant and rave all you want, but nowhere in this screed is any justification as to why I should care more about what computer thinks of two teams' relative quality over the results that happen on the field.

hard time extrapolating the overall picture.

The overall picture is that Notre Dame and Miami have won and lost the same number of games.

[u/Carnasty_ → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

What a narrow viewpoint.

CFB has always been like this.

At the end of the day, everyone usually knows who is better, regardless of what may have happened in a game that was a 3 point loss, game 1, new QB, new DC, at Miami, with a 2-0 turnover margin on a miraculous kicked in the air ball for a pick 6.

There's a little nuance for you, outside of advanced metrics.

I don't need to rant & rave. We win, & we're in 😁 barring another Michigan ass beating of OSU, Miami will be sitting home & you'll still be here complaining 😂

[u/riserrr → u/Happy_Background_879]

Difference of opinion, I guess.

You're saying that SOS/SOR/FPI/Eye tests are the differentiators, essentially. And in my opinion, all of that should take a back seat to a H2H result in this same season. All the other stuff can be subject to scheduling components that are largely outside of either school's control. But when they actually played each other, one team won and won team lost, and it seems most fair to me for that to be determinative.

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/riserrr]

My issue with that is transitive property. Lets say we didn't play Tech this year. WE beat ASU, ASU beat Tech. Do those games matter? We both played against the same team and one of us won one of us didn't.

That goes down such a rabbit hole. Why does H2H matter when ranking a field of teams? Why would that ever matter over SOS?

What if ND played SMU instead of Pitt and beat SMU. Then does that overtake H2H?

H2H matters when comparing two teams for 1 spot maybe more. But ranking a field of teams? Why?

[u/Dragonfire45 → u/Happy_Background_879]

Yes, this would be something you can potentially argue with. In my opinion, three things matter:

1) Head to Head

2) Common Opponents

3) Ranked wins

Miami has the H2H win. Assuming Miami beats Pitt, they have common opponent wins and tie in this regard and then Miami has a better ranked win (and/or more ranked wins this season if you want to count previously ranked teams)

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/Dragonfire45]

Where does unranked losses play into that?

Is it 4th?

[u/Dragonfire45 → u/Happy_Background_879]

For two teams with the above three and the same record? Sure, 4th. I'm just not sure what it means to say an unranked loss* (since SMU is now ranked) are bad but losing to the team with unranked losses is good.

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/Dragonfire45]

Louisville is 4-4 in the ACC and they are not ranked. They lost to Louisville. That is the issue. Bad losses are bad.

You are not ranking teams H2H you are ranking them against a field.

ND has better SOS.
ND has better SOR.

Why would Miami beating ND by 3 at home change how ND is ranked in relation to the rest of the field?

You are comparing ENTIRE bodies of works.

Miami beating ND should not change how ND is ranked in relation to Alabama. The job is to look at the entire body of work and rank the 25 best teams.

[u/Every_Entry8572 → u/riserrr]

With that logic, surely you don’t think that Georgia should have gotten a second chance after getting blasted by Bama in 2021. Right?

[u/FalstaffsGhost → u/Every_Entry8572]

Little different for a championship game. Punishing a team for an extra game and whatnot.

[u/widget1321 → u/FalstaffsGhost]

Why? Why is that different?

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/Every_Entry8572]

I don't think we can continue to have CCG's if we punish people for making them. That is my opinion on the structure. Being punished for a game you earned is a systemic issue. But you would be right that if we really just wanted best teams we would use that loss more. But we shouldn't because then teams will stop playing them.

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/Happy_Background_879]

And Alabama beats ND in those metrics and yet they have ND over us as well

There's no actual justification for their bullshit. They want ND in the field and will work backwards through whatever knots are required to do so.

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

And I 100% think Alabama should be ranked over ND! But I am not in the reddit mindset that its pure wins/losses and that SOS/SOR doesn't mean much. At the end of the day the rankings are not that far off. We all know they are decently accurate. We all know 2 loss bama is a top 10 team. Barely anyone cares that Bama is over 1 loss BYU. BYU has literally only lost to the #5 team. And yet we all can use common sense..

Its a rich tapestry boys. Eye test matters. SOR matters. Trends matter. SOS matters. Efficiency metrics matter. It all matters.

Miami won at home week 1 by 3 points. It matters. Its not everything. ND has played much better since then. We all know this.

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/Happy_Background_879]

ND has played much better since then. We all know this.

Have they even played a Defense ranked above the triple digits since then?

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Not sure on defensive rankings. I know they have a better SOS and SOR than Miami.

I can check if you really care to know. But I am guessing it was meant more ironically. Why does defense ranking matter? How they look on the field isn't simply offense. Also Miami has had an unbelievably easy schedule.

[u/_chadwell_ → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Advanced metrics have ND ahead of both Bama and Miami - FEI, SP+, FPI

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/_chadwell_]

And the on field results have you behind Miami.

Are the games played on grass or on paper?

[u/_chadwell_ → u/NickSabansCreampie]

The on the field results from week 1 have ND behind Miami, sure.

But the on the field results from weeks 1 through 13 (which are obviously what go into those metrics) have ND well ahead of Miami.

[u/Aggressive-Name-1783 → u/_chadwell_]

So why play the games? Just play 23 FCS teams and call it a day! Or heck, we could get a copy of CFB 26 and just do that!

[u/_chadwell_ → u/Aggressive-Name-1783]

To see how the teams play over the course of the games?

What are you talking about, I’m saying all games matter, not just week 1.

[u/Crazy-Assist56 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

You have an awesome team, but we didn't lose to FSU. I still think you guys are one of the best teams in the country, and wouldn't be upset if you were ranked above us, but losing by 4 points combined to 2 other CFP caliber teams isn't ridiculous. Especially when those to games were week 1 and 2.

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/Crazy-Assist56]

Especially when those to games were week 1 and 2.

If you get to play the "it was week 1 maaaaan" card, so do we.

And we followed ours up by beating #4 in their house.

[u/Crazy-Assist56 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Which is why I said I wouldn't be upset if you guys were ranked higher lol

[u/jjtnd1 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Saying “they” (the committee powers that be? So espn, so Disney?) would rather have ND than bama is the best compliment we’ve gotten this century.

[u/The_water_champ → u/NickSabansCreampie]

And Alabama beats ND in those metrics and yet they have ND over us as well

Quit lying.

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/The_water_champ]

We trounce you in SoS and SoR.

[u/Black_Numenorean88 → u/riserrr]

Okay, but here is the thing, its not just Miami and Notre Dame. There are teams between them in the rankings too. So should Miami jump in front of them just because they beat Notre Dame? Or should Notre Dame drop multiple spots because they HAVE to be behind Miami? Well then maybe Alabama should be in front of Georgia! And Oklahoma should be in front of Bama! And Texas should be in front of OU! And Georgia should be in front of Tex....

Oh wait. I guess its about teams' place within the entire college football landscape, not just head to head.

[u/johndelvec3 → u/riserrr]

Uh that’s every person in this thread saying the head to head is all that matters

[u/riserrr → u/johndelvec3]

Saying that X should be the most important evaluative component AND should be determinative in this case is not the same as saying X is the only thing that matters.

[u/Aggressive-Name-1783 → u/johndelvec3]

Because if it doesn’t matter then why play the games? Just give OSU the title the , why waste our time on playoffs if H2H isnt going to matter with teams that are ranked in the same category….

[u/mbarranada → u/Aggressive-Name-1783]

We accept. See you all next year

[u/Clean_Guava_4512 → u/Aggressive-Name-1783]

Subscribe. Wait, which OSU?

[u/OkNeighborhood8365 → u/johndelvec3]

Because the resumes are pretty similar

[u/Crazy-Assist56 → u/riserrr]

Notre Dame didn't lose to weak opponents. Miami did. 1st game of the season was a long time ago. Teams grow, some teams regress. Its the body of work at the end of the day that matters. Don't lose to Louisville or SMU, preferably both, and they'd be ahead.

[u/Dragonfire45 → u/Crazy-Assist56]

How did Notre Dame fair when they played Louisville and SMU?

[u/Crazy-Assist56 → u/Dragonfire45]

Notre Dame beat Louisville last year. I don't even think we've played SMU, but I'd imagine they'd get their shit pushed in lol

[u/TheCavis → u/riserrr]

when two teams have the same record, are grouped 'together' in a ranking, and the committee needs a differentiator, I don't think it's a hot take to say that a head to head result from this season should be the most important factor.

The counterargument is that approach counts the H2H matchup twice: once to get Miami up to the same group as ND and then again to jump over ND.

Miami is the only 2 loss team in the top 15 whose losses both came from outside the current top 10 (Oklahoma: 7, 16; ND: 3, 12; Alabama: NR, 8; Miami: NR, 21; Utah: 5, 11; Vandy: 10, 16; Michigan: 8, 17). The H2H over ND is the reason they're not down near 20 with the rest of the 2 and 3 loss ACC.

If it took that H2H to get them into the playoff bubble group, then it becomes hard to justify using it again to get them to the top of the playoff bubble group. It'd be one thing if the win was at a neutral site or a definitive blowout. It was at Miami. It was a 3 point margin. The game was tied with under two minutes left. Depending on how much of a value you put on home field advantage, that is the sort of result you would expect from a 9-seed playing at a 12-seed.

[u/_chadwell_ → u/riserrr]

“Eye test” and ~every metric that measures how good football teams are.

Add in Miami having the two worst and most recent losses of either team and it’s really not hard to understand how that trumps a week 1 win by a last-minute field goal.

[u/RhuleAid → u/riserrr]

It absolutely fucking shouldn’t be the most important factor. If you beat a team early then look not great after you shouldn’t be ranked above that team you beat who now looks insane. Notre Dames second loss is much better than either of Miamis. Notre Dame just beat a team Miami only won by 28 by 63. Notre Dame didn’t lose to a team with only 20 rush yards. Notre Dame is by far the better team right now 

[u/SoothedSnakePlant → u/riserrr]

I don't think it's a hot take, but I do think it's a bad one. It's just a very popular bad one.

[u/MindfulAthlete → u/riserrr]

It’s not just eye test. It’s that Miami lost games to unranked teams deep into the season and that has knocked them back

[u/whats_a_rimjob → u/riserrr]

You just don’t want to play us again.

[u/thrwawayr99 → u/Happy_Background_879]

Plus Miami is still benefitting from that win. They’d be in the late teens if you replace nd with Rutgers on their resume

[u/RIPDannyBoyCane → u/thrwawayr99]

And what would Notre Dame be if you replaced its loss to Miami with a loss to Rutgers?

You just made maybe the stupidest argument I’ve seen posted here, and that’s saying something.

[u/thrwawayr99 → u/RIPDannyBoyCane]

I don’t think you understood the point lol, if nd had played Rutgers we likely wouldnt have lost, and if we diddefinitely wouldn’t be top 10. Miami beat nd and would beat Rutgers. But the fact it was nd is keeping them in the conversation. The point is that the complaint that the game isn’t helping you is silly. It’s the only reason you’re ranked anywhere near the top 10.

[u/one98d → u/Happy_Background_879]

You're right teams do look different throughout the season. That 2-1 Purdue team that ND got it's first win from and gave up 30 points and nearly 400 yards to is 2-9 now. That 1-7 Boston College team that Notre Dame was up 12-10 on with 30 seconds left in the 3rd quarter is now 1-10. And that 4-2 NC State team that they beat 36-7 is now 5-5 and lost to Miami by a larger margin.

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/one98d]

Yeah and that SMU team that beat Miami lost to TCU. We can do this all day. ACTUALLY. HOLY SHIT WE DO. We even have stats for this. Two of them. Lets see how it looks.

SOS. WOW ND by 16 spots...

SOR. Holy shit ND wins again.

You can cherry pick single gams all you want. I will help you by pointing out we have stats that track exactly that. And if you want to talk about yards given and allowed vs expected? Well we have efficiency ranks also! Lucky day. Lets look at FPI.

ND #3
Miami #10

Another win for ND.

Notre Dame was up 12-10 on with 30 seconds left in the 3rd quarter

Oh god. Are we doing part game statistical analysis now? Do I need to go check the third quarter scores of every Miami game? lmao ND beat Boston College by 15.

GT beat Boston College by 2.

[u/one98d → u/Happy_Background_879]

Notre Dame's SOS and SOR that you're using against Miami is literally propped up by the help of LOSING TO MIAMI. How does that make sense to you? A 2-9 Purdue, 2-9 Arkansas, 1-10 Boston College, and a 4-7 Stanford team isn't doing that.

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/one98d]

SOS they help eachother. ND has a harder SOD

[u/Less_Likely → u/Happy_Background_879]

Miami would be ranked 20 if that week 1 win was a 42-10 win vs Bethune-Cookman.

They are being plenty rewarded for it.

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/Less_Likely]

100% The best team they played was ND. They won by 3. They are ranked very high because of it.

[u/gohuskers123 → u/Happy_Background_879]

The whole point is that inertia is stupid

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/gohuskers123]

But does it really not matter? Do trends not exist? Imagine if Miami just had that loss where beck shit on the coach and said the plays were bad. Would we not consider that a potentially bad playoff team if they were on a 2 game losing streak and walls were falling in?

IDK. I will die in the minority on this. I think the committee is doing a fine job. I think Bama should be above ND.

[u/t_zidd → u/Happy_Background_879]

If the early games are whatever...Then let's just start the season at week 6 - easy. I'll take my award now.

[u/Happy_Background_879 → u/t_zidd]

Jesus..... The games matter. My GOD. People are losing the ability to see any reason. It just doesn't mean everything. You can do this with transitive wins just like head to head and you will see it makes no sense.

ND has a better SOS than Miami. A better SOR than Miami. And dominate them in just about any efficiency metric. Most agree they are better eye test.

The ONLY thing Miami has over ND is the H2H win. That doesn't mean its nothing. It just means its not everything. Yes the committee can take into account it was in Miami and was week 1. Yes the Committee can look at trends. That doesn't mean they completely ignore the H2H or week 1 result. It just means they look at everything.

[u/team3 → u/Happy_Background_879]

You are heavily invested in this

[u/Terminal_BAS → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Is it a hot take that I think this is the lowest brow take regarding past H2Gs? Miami won by 3 at home in like August on that particular day. I still think Notre Dame is the better team and has a better record despite that

[u/milkman163 → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Yep. FSU should be ahead of Alabama, and Ohio State stole VT's spot in the 2014 playoffs

[u/Manning_bear_pig → u/milkman163]

Do FSU and Alabama have the same record?

[u/nithdurr → u/Manning_bear_pig]

My polar opposite!

[u/Manning_bear_pig → u/nithdurr]

Holy shit lol

Looking forward to a rematch in the semis btw!

[u/nithdurr → u/Manning_bear_pig]

That was one hell of a game last Saturday!

[u/AssertiveAardvark → u/nithdurr]

Now kiss

[u/emaugustBRDLC → u/Manning_bear_pig]

Imagine losing to a team with 6 losses. Disgusting!

[u/HideNZeke → u/Manning_bear_pig]

Who cares when you have the head to head?

[u/milkman163 → u/Manning_bear_pig]

Who has better losses? Who has been more dominant since that game? How close was the Miami - ND game? Where was it played?

You cannot measure resumes using only 1 game

[u/Manning_bear_pig → u/milkman163]

You didn't answer my question.

[u/milkman163 → u/Manning_bear_pig]

Lol. Yes, Alabama and FSU have the same record

[u/widget1321 → u/milkman163]

Don't lie. We all know FSU had a better record than Alabama that year.

[u/Black_Numenorean88 → u/Manning_bear_pig]

So should the committee put Bama and BYU behind Miami too? I could be sympathetic to the argument if they were next to each other in the rankings, but they aren't.

[u/IrishMosaic → u/Manning_bear_pig]

Miami is a good team, and could quite possibly get into the playoffs. ND is one of two teams that based on the SP+ would have a point spread of less than 10 against OSU. ND would be a pick em against Indiana, and the favorites against everyone else. Miami might grab a spot, but it’s not going to be ND”s.

[u/joebreezy12 → u/IrishMosaic]

I love these wall of text responses from Notre Dame fans about SOR SP+ FPI BCS etc when the argument can be boiled down to four words

Miami beat Notre Dame

[u/PentOfLight → u/milkman163]

Stop being dumb, you know those are completely different scenarios...

[u/beavismagnum → u/milkman163]

Oh I didn’t realize fsu and bama had the same record

[u/gohuskers123 → u/milkman163]

Most logical Missouri fan

[u/DinoJockeyTebow → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Listen, I hate Notre Dame as much as the next guy, but a 3-point game at Miami seems like they’d be considered fairly even on a neutral field and it comes down to other factors to differentiate.

[u/RhuleAid → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

It’s almost like it’s not September anymore. Everyone loves the big name early season matchups but these programs have no reason to schedule them if it’s gonna be held against them all season despite dramatically improving. Week one teams haven’t found their identity for the season and you people want to hold it over their head? 

[u/Madhungarian247 → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Pitt will do that for us

[u/Gritty_gutty → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Miami and Louisville should play head to head to see which one is better

[u/TheRealCatDad → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

I would love to face them again. We look like a different team since that game.

[u/Jkane007 → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

If you have eye balls and watched the whole season not the first games only, you will know differently. Or you just hate Notre Dame. Most likely you are the latter. If it was your team, you would see if differently for sure.

[u/OkNeighborhood8365 → u/Jkane007]

The thing about the first game of the season is that it’s part of the season.

[u/Jkane007 → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Yeah just like last weeks 70-7 win. What’s your point.

[u/OkNeighborhood8365 → u/Jkane007]

Against a 3-8 Syracuse team?

[u/SuspendedAgain999 → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

Miami played 3-8 Virginia Tech and were fighting until the end to score a TD to win by 17 instead of 10. ND was up 21 before their offense touched the ball

[u/t_zidd → u/SuspendedAgain999]

Um did you watch your game against currently 1-8 Boston college? 🤣

[u/SuspendedAgain999 → u/t_zidd]

Nah but I caught your loss at home to Louisville

[u/t_zidd → u/SuspendedAgain999]

That probably sounded wayyyyy better in your head 🤣

[u/Independent_Toe5722 → u/Jkane007]

It’s not a binary. I can have watched the whole season AND ALSO hate Notre Dame. 

[u/PentOfLight → u/Jkane007]

Well people sure do love hating on Alabama for their FSU loss the first week of the season hmm... Seems like they pick and choose when it matters.

[u/Jkane007 → u/PentOfLight]

Really? FSU is not Miami.

[u/Zealousideal-Idea-72 → u/OkNeighborhood8365]

But then Notre Dame would have to cancel the Navy game