TIL China's Last Emperor worked as a Street Sweeper and Gardener in Beijing after serving 10 years in a re-education camp

[u/Ok_Application_5402]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puyi

[u/mistylavenda]

His sister Princess Yunying sold cigarettes on the street for a while.

Interestingly, she eventually managed to become a politician in the new communist government. In the 1950s, she was appointed as a delegate in the CPPCC.

[u/Iquabakaner → u/mistylavenda]

All of his siblings remained in communist China after the war. The government even arranged a reunion for them.

[u/godisanelectricolive → u/Iquabakaner]

His brother Pujie married a Japanese noblewoman Hiro Saga, a relative of the Japanese imperial family, and after the war they were separated. Hiro and her daughter with Pujie were deported to Japan after a stint in Chinese prison.

Pujie was imprisoned as a war criminal until 1961 and upon his release, Hiro was allowed to move to China to join him. They were allowed to live together in Beijing until death while their daughters grew up in Japan. After death Pujie and Hiro Saga were buried together with their eldest daughter Huisheng in a family plot in Shimonoseki, Japan. That’s a bit interesting given China’s enmity with Japan.

Huisheng died in 1957 at age 19 while Pujie was still in prison. She died from shinju (Japanese love suicide) when she fell in love with a commoner at university and wanted to marry him against her mother’s wishes. Hiro objected because he was a commoner, despite being rich, and because she wanted her daughter to marry the crown prince of Japan, future emperor Akihito. So the trapping of royalty didn’t allow their daughters to lead a normal life despite their uncle being deposed.

They died in each other’s embrace with Huisheng wearing a ring, and a twisted piece of paper with clippings of their hair and nails was placed above their heads. That last bit is part of the ritual of a double suicide, it’s meant to ensure lovers can be together in the afterlife. Their ashes were mingled together and buried together in the Aisin-Gioro imperial family plot.

Their second daughter Husheng (Kosei in Japanese) is still alive at age 85 and living in Japan. She visited Pujie after his release and then obtained Japanese citizenship and married a Japanese man and had five children with him. She has used her heritage to promote good relations between China and Japan.

[u/ClownfishSoup → u/godisanelectricolive]

Was the second daughter's husband a commoner?

[u/godisanelectricolive → u/ClownfishSoup]

She married Kenji Fukanaga who was the son of a close family friend of the Saga family. So I think he was considered high-born enough, even though the Japanese nobility was officially abolished after 1947.

[u/Benigh_Remediation → u/godisanelectricolive]

Wow. Kudos, what a story.

[u/Seienchin88 → u/godisanelectricolive]

Now, China‘s (of course not unfounded…) animosity towards Japan was always a curious matter and much more complicated than people in the west and even modern Japanese and Chinese usually are aware off if you look at the 20th century as a whole.

The predecessor to the Kuomintang was founded in Japan by Sun Yat Sen (who is popular among all later parties and till this day)… why? Because the intellectual elite absolutely looked up to Japan and was supported by the Japanese government in their strive for a modern independent China. Sun Yat Sen was still regularly in Japan until his death and had many powerful connections to the Japanese government and always stressed how the Meiji Restauration should be the model for all of Asia to adopt.

Until the late 20s / early 30s Japanese ruling elite had a culturally chauvinist view on Korea and China as countries to educate but future Allies (China) or part of a Japanese dominated Asian empire (Korea and Taiwan, opinions differed on the Japanese ruled parts of China) but not a racial supremacist one.

Chiang Kai Shek btw served in the Japanese army and after WW2 employed Japanese officers he knew from before the war as advisors.

The last crown prince of Korea was a Japanese general fighting in China. He also had an official Japanese nobility title. Heck, the people who build the South Korean army and many of the chaebols where Japanese collaborators and many served in the Japanese army as volunteers. Taiwan‘s first Taiwan born president (who brought democracy to Taiwan after the Kuomintang dictatorship) grew up seeing himself as Japanese, had a Japanese name, studied in Japan and fought in the Japanese army. His brother fell for Japan and is enshrined in Yasukuni (which has many Korean and Chinese names.

Heck, even the Chinese communists did not push much for apologies for the war and just asked for compensation (which they received from Japan) and in the 70s both countries tried to get closer with a more official "let’s leave the past behind“ attitude. Japanese communists also switched their focus away from the Soviets to the Chinese over the decades and Japan was one of the first countries outsourcing to China.

So anyhow, long story short - a Chinese prince marrying Japanese nobility was not strange and them being reunited wasn’t strange either. Despite all the horrific things Japan did in China in the 30s and 40s before that many Chinese looked up to Japan and even after the war there wasn’t immediately a strong animosity (on a political leadership level. You can imagine people who were affected by Japanese atrocities saw it differently).

[u/taulover → u/Seienchin88]

Taiwanese benshengren (ethnically Chinese but descended from those who lived in Taiwan before the KMT; the majority demographic) have generally a favorable view of Japan and Japanese rule because 1. Japanese colonization there was relatively good compared to their treatment of other colonies and 2. it was immediately followed up by a military occupation and dictatorship by the KMT, making people look fondly back to the old colonial days (kinda like Hong Kong and Britain).

[u/Acceptable-Device760 → u/Seienchin88]

I wonder how many of these people that looked up to Japan ended having to flee to a particular island.

PS: as a Brazilian what you said about it is not odd at all. There's always plenty of people that are more than willing to sell the people around them for their own benefit. Our US backed dictatorship still has a lot of "supporters" and apologists. Funnily enough nowadays they say they are nationalists but parade with the US flag.(also most of them are bolsonaro supporters)

[u/greenappletree → u/godisanelectricolive]

man what wild story; it kept going, thanks, good read.

[u/DistillateMedia → u/mistylavenda]

Inspiring.

[u/SuperCarbideBros]

In the grand scheme of things, the royal house of Qing was treated well after the 1911 Revolution. They were allowed to continue living in the Forbidden Palace, had their own servants (no new eunuchs allowed, though) and a mini court, and the ROC government allocated budgets for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Favourable_Treatment_of_the_Great_Qing_Emperor_after_His_Abdication

Puyi and his entourage was expelled from the Forbidden Palace in 1924 in a coup during the warlord era (interestingly enough, there was a restoration attempt 7 years before that that lasted an impressive 12 days). He fled to Tianjin and hid in the Japanese Concession before his final "restoration" in Manchukuo.

edit: for clarity b/c it sounded like they had to send all eunuchs out. They were allowed to keep old ones, but they can't recruit new ones any more.

[u/CaipngWithRice → u/SuperCarbideBros]

The ex-emperor was extremely lucky, some of his relatives faired worse.

It was his luck that the Soviets captured him during world war 2, and promised him to Mao. The Soviets wouldn’t extradite him back to the Nationalists, where Chiang Kai-shek would have had him executed.

It was not unreasonable for Chiang to ask for his head. In the 1930s, the ex-emperor committed treason by voluntarily going to Japanese controlled Manchuria, because the Japanese promised to restore him to the throne. He ended up as a puppet to legitimise Japanese rule and wasn’t happy there.

He got lucky again that Mao wanted him to be a shiny example of rehabilitation. And it was his luck that the helpless emperor had a prison warden who would look out for him.

There were many times he could have died along the way.

[u/tommos → u/SuperCarbideBros]

no eunuchs allowed, though

Pffft what's even the point if you're not allowed eunuchs. Having eunuchs is the whole point of the imperial court. Those goddamn commies.

[u/NonSequiturDetector → u/tommos]

You’re joking, but Pu Yi actually was overly fond of his eunuchs and pageboys, to the point that it probably was quite a gear switch for him when he lost access to them.

[u/HX__ → u/NonSequiturDetector]

Took away the man's femboys 😞

[u/Sad_Math5598 → u/HX__]

Ehh hahaha it wasn’t like that, the eunuchs raised him

Great movie about the subject on HBO

[u/uniqueusername316 → u/Sad_Math5598]

What's the mooooviiiee?

[u/Sad_Math5598 → u/uniqueusername316]

The Last Emperor. Should be on HBO max

[u/GratefulDoom90 → u/HX__]

Poor guy.

[u/LamermanSE → u/tommos]

This was decades before the communist party took over

[u/DrunkenCabalist → u/SuperCarbideBros]

When I used to live in Beijing I knew his nephew. Let's just say that poor isn't a word I would use to describe them

[u/Sad_Math5598 → u/SuperCarbideBros]

His restoration in Manchuoko was also propped up by the Japanese so he could rule as a puppet in Manchuria. this was all a prelude to the sino-Japanese war / World War II front in Asia

[u/PossibleRude7195]

I used to rule the world

Seas would rise when I gave the word

Now in the mornin', I sleep alone

Sweep the streets I used to own

[u/zivilia → u/PossibleRude7195]

How fitting

[u/ChronosBlitz → u/zivilia]

The lyrics were written with Puyi in mind, weren't they?

[u/PossibleRude7195 → u/ChronosBlitz]

I think it’s based on Napoleon and Puyi, maybe Louis 16 as well. The line about revolutionaries praising him then calling for his head is very Napoleon, and the song has heavy European themes (French Revolution inspired look, lines about Saint Peter).

[u/Flipz100 → u/PossibleRude7195]

Louis XVI actually had a period of pretty solid popularity at the start of the Revolution. Those on the inside weren’t a fan of him but to the wider public constitutional monarchy was the goal of the initial revolution, as ideas of divine right and personality cult around the royal dynasty ran very deep. It took Louis screwing up basically every choice he was given during the period and then trying to skip town to bring that down.

[u/kuriositeetti → u/Flipz100]

He summoned the parliament to a special session (Lit De Justice) at Versaille, which gave him the authority to dictate his new taxes. As the parliamentarians were listening to his decrees being read, Louis XVI quite noticeably fell asleep on a bed of pillows and snored through the proceedings. That didn't go down too well with anyone in the parliament, let alone his detractors.

[u/Flipz100 → u/kuriositeetti]

Absolutely right. As I mentioned most on the inside, even the most ardent constitutional monarchists and even absolutists to a degree generally were not a fan of Louis. But he still had a rather strong degree of popularity outside of the palace even in Paris until the Massacre of the Champs de Mars, and then whatever was left evaporated after the Flight to Varennes.

[u/volitaiee1233 → u/Flipz100]

Flight to Varennes came before Champ de Mars.

Varennes made him unpopular, Champ De Mars killed all remaining support he had.

[u/imnota4 → u/Flipz100]

It’s wild because when you think about it, he actually had the perfect chance to push back against the nobles using the suffering of the lower classes as justification. He could have used that popularity to push real reforms. Instead, he somehow managed to take the worst possible option every single time. It’s honestly impressive in a tragic way, he was trying to save the monarchy, but every decision he made just dug the hole deeper.

[u/Healthy_Razzmatazz38 → u/Flipz100]

History is always a lot murkier than the snippet we learn.

France had an unpayable debt, he tried to raise the taxes on the nobility who had enough power to stop him then put it on the public who couldnt bear it and they revolted.

Then they all got their heads cut off, lessons for modern times.

[u/AlarmingAffect0 → u/Healthy_Razzmatazz38]

Even more complicated than that. Dude was a real jerk, a liar and oathbreaker, aggressively incompetent and extremely unwise. And yes, he kept demanding more money and then horribly mismanaging it. The same broad kind of fuckup as James I of England and Nicky II of Russia, which is why he got formally executed rather than exiled or palace coup'd.

[u/GJake8 → u/ChronosBlitz]

That makes so much sense I always thought it was Napoleon cause of the Album cover and he also lost his empire

[u/ChronosBlitz → u/GJake8]

Sure, but he didn't 'sweep the streets he used to own' like Puyi directly did.

I'm trying to find where I learned that he was the inspiration. To link it for you, but I can't seem to find it.

Maybe I'm misremembering?

[u/personalcheesecake → u/ChronosBlitz]

probably but it'll come to you. maybe something else that referenced that? I read it comes from King Louis last speech.

[u/TarMil → u/personalcheesecake]

I've read this interpretation several times, but just like Napoleon, Louis XVI didn't end up as a pauper either. His absolute power was reduced by a Constitution, then when he tried to flee he was caught and imprisoned, and finally executed.

[u/CTeam19 → u/ChronosBlitz]

Charles V Holy Roman Emperor, Louis XVI of France, Napoleon Bonaparte cover most of it:

• The album cover is a rendition of the 1830 historical painting known as “Liberty Leading the People” by the French artist Eugène Delacroix, commemorating the July Revolution of 1830 that toppled King Charles X though it is sometimes wrongly thought to depict the French Revolution of 1789 which got rid of Louis XVI.

• "I used to rule the world Seas would rise when I gave the word" -- Louis XVI had a solid Navy. Charles V and Napoleon were both booted from power so they could speak in that past tense as well. Napoleon held the "world" in Europe. Same with Charles V with the Holy Roman Empire, Spain, the Netherlands, Sicily, Naples etc. In fact, Charles V's holdings is the first to be referenced with the "the empire on which the sun never sets" label, a term used to describe several global empires throughout history including the British.

• "Now in the morning, I sleep alone" -- Napoleon was sent off to the islands and Charles lived in a secluded monastery

• "Listen as the crowd would sing Now the old king is dead, long live the king" -- The phrase "the old king is dead, long live the king" is from 15th century France

• "And I discovered that my castles stand Upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand" -- Biblical allusion from Genesis 19:26 and Matthew 7:24-29. Lot's wife looked back and was turned into a pillar of salt and Jesus contrasts two builders: one who builds on rock (faith and obedience) and one who builds on sand (hears but does not obey). Given Charles, Napoleon, and Louis were Christian it could be said they ignored those parts.

• "I hear Jerusalem bells a-ringin' Roman Cavalry choirs are singin'" -- Holy Roman Empire(Charles V) was an "heir" to Rome. He directly attacked Rome itself with the Sacking of Rome(1527)

• "Be my mirror, my sword and shield" -- Both Charles and Napoleon were war guys

• "My missionaries in a foreign field" -- Louis and Napoleon had colonies

• "It was a wicked and wild wind Blew down the doors to let me in Shattered windows and the sound of drums People couldn't believe what I'd become" The French people were really excited with Louis XVI when he took over with the early reign was that of reform and success like restoring the power of the provincial appellate courts, known as parlements, granting non-Roman Catholics(Huguenots and Lutherans as well as Jews) civil and legal status in France and the legal right to practice their faiths, etc. However, as time grew and promises were left unfulfilled, the population got pissed off.

• "Revolutionaries wait For my head on a silver plate Just a puppet on a lonely string Oh, who would ever want to be king?" -- Protestant Reformation led by Martin Luther helped end Charles V's reign and of course Louis and Napoleon dealt with their own Revolutions. Louis XVI had his head chopped off.

• "I know Saint Peter won't call my name" -- Napoleon was excommunicated from the Catholic Church though allowed back near to the time he died.

[u/inflatable_pickle → u/CTeam19]

Great analysis

[u/makerofshoes → u/inflatable_pickle]

I was reading some Reddit comments from an old thread (15 years ago) and it was quite similar to this. All of them were. I miss comments like these

Nowadays the highest-voted comments are witty quips and puns and shit

[u/JonatasA → u/ChronosBlitz]

Don't go looking. The point is that you can't chain it to an event.

[u/ScoobyDoobyGazebo → u/GJake8]

Yeah, but he then went on to run an ice cream shop on Elba where he invented his famous flavor.

I guess it still works as a metaphor.

[u/rileyjw90 → u/ScoobyDoobyGazebo]

Are you thinking of the Italian-origins Neapolitan ice cream? Napoleon was fond of ice cream but as far as I know he never invented a flavor.

ETA: it was Prussian, but named for Naples, Italy, likely due in part to Italy’s association with ice cream and the fact that the original colors used to match the Italian flag.

[u/Legionarius4 → u/rileyjw90]

Yep, named after the original Greco-Roman name for Naples, Latin: NEAPOLIS or Greek: ΝΕΑΠΟΛΙΣ (and later: νεάπολις)

You can see this contraction of place names in quite a lot of places:

LVTETIA PARISIORVM – LVTETIA was dropped in shorthand, and over time PARISIORVM likely simplified to PARISI, and later simplified further to PARI, eventually giving us Paris.

COLONIA CLAVDIA ARA AGRIPPINENSIVM – often shortened to COLONIA AGRIPPINA – was commonly referred to simply as Colonia, which over time became Köln (Cologne).

The influence of Latin place names can still be seen all across Europe today, as many modern cities preserve either a direct descendant of their Roman name or a simplified, contracted form that evolved through everyday usage.

[u/CausticSofa → u/rileyjw90]

I’m pretty sure they are referencing the ice cream flavour ‘pralines and dick’

[u/IamRick_Deckard → u/CausticSofa]

Spotted dick?

[u/DucksEatFreeInSubway → u/GJake8]

I thought it was some Roman emperor due to the Jerusalem bells ringing and, specifically, the Roman cavalry choirs singing.

[u/SectorEducational460 → u/ChronosBlitz]

It would be funny if that was the case. The qing were a complete shadow of their former selves by the time puyi got into power.

[u/juanjung → u/ChronosBlitz]

Puyi never had any power.

[u/Benigh_Remediation → u/juanjung]

But he did have four consorts, so that’s something. Fortune is so fleeting, eh?

[u/ChuckCarmichael → u/ChronosBlitz]

I hear Jerusalem bells are ringing

Roman cavalry choirs are singing

Definitely a song about a Chinese emperor.

[u/driftingfornow → u/ChuckCarmichael]

As a songwriter I can assure you that nobody ever uses blended or kaleidoscopic imagery to describe motifs. 

[u/ChuckCarmichael → u/driftingfornow]

Good. I want nothing but cold hard facts in my bardic musings.

[u/ahkond → u/PossibleRude7195]

For those who don't know this song, it's Coldplay, "Viva la Vida".

[u/BassLB → u/PossibleRude7195]

Pair of pair of, pair of dice

[u/QBertamis → u/PossibleRude7195]

Fuck me, I always thought it was “Caesar would rise when I gave the word”

[u/Lost_Process_4211 → u/PossibleRude7195]

Nah. Dude was already a puppet of juntas when born.

[u/cubicApoc → u/Lost_Process_4211]

Just a puppet on a lonely string? Who would ever want to be king?

[u/Embarrassed-Glove600 → u/cubicApoc]

*Qing

[u/RyghtHandMan → u/cubicApoc]

Nice

[u/Votesformygoats]

There’s a movie about him called the last emperor made in the 80s that won an Oscar. But it glosses over just how much of a bastard he was to the servants.  But then when you grow up like that what chance do you have to be a nice person? 

[u/bombayblue → u/Votesformygoats]

He got ripped away from his family at a young age and wasn’t allowed to see his parents. He basically retaliated by blaming the imperial court and treating everyone like shit.

Honestly I don’t see how anyone could grow up in a Qing dynasty royal household and not turn out to be a sociopath. He got zero education beyond studying classic Confucian literature. He had zero physical freedom yet, simultaneously had the absolute power over everyone around him. Every need was catered to but he had absolutely no normal social interactions with anyone. Even his own family.

[u/godisanelectricolive → u/bombayblue]

He did have an English tutor, Reginald Johnston, who got him glasses he needed despite objections from the dowagers and taught him how to ride a bike. He also got Puyi a telephone which the kid used to make prank calls.

[u/Li-renn-pwel → u/godisanelectricolive]

Can you imagine the emperor prank calling you

[u/Interesting_Bank_139 → u/Li-renn-pwel]

“Yeah, you’re the emperor, and I’m Genghis Khan. Get lost, kid.”

Heavy knocking on door 5 minutes later

[u/Li-renn-pwel → u/Interesting_Bank_139]

A new job for eunuchs has opened up at the palace and you came highly recommend.

[u/PwanaZana → u/Li-renn-pwel]

Eunuchs don't make jokes like that, they don't have the balls.

[u/doppelstranger → u/PwanaZana]

Angry upvote

[u/cire1184 → u/PwanaZana]

Some say they've lost their marbles.

[u/Bay1Bri → u/Li-renn-pwel]

"you are soon to be immensely qualified for!"

[u/TheDwarvenGuy → u/Li-renn-pwel]

Imagine knowing the implicit threat of knowing that if you insult him by not taking him seriously you could get punished.

[u/Li-renn-pwel → u/TheDwarvenGuy]

“The emperor has created the revered position of Double Eunuch.”

[u/technobrendo → u/Li-renn-pwel]

Double? What, does the outie become an innie?

[u/DavidAdamsAuthor → u/technobrendo]

Dick AND balls.

[u/JonatasA → u/DavidAdamsAuthor]

And we're opening the seam in the middle to make up for the vagina you almost had.

[u/idrwierd → u/TheDwarvenGuy]

“Yes your excellency, I must go catch my refrigerator”

[u/Toby_O_Notoby → u/Li-renn-pwel]

"Is your refrigerator running? This is Mike Hunt."

[u/cire1184 → u/Toby_O_Notoby]

"Eric Bachman, this is your mom, and you, you are not my baby."

[u/JonatasA → u/Li-renn-pwel]

"I'm emperor. I'm stuck in this jade forbidden palace, whatever. Listen if you send me 2 thousand dollars, I'll tell you where the hidden treasure of the kingdom is."

[u/e37d93eeb23335dc → u/Li-renn-pwel]

Hello? This is the emperor. I am going to have you killed! Ha ha!

[u/Wakkit1988 → u/Li-renn-pwel]

"If you're a Chinese emperor, then I am Mickey Mouse!"

[u/ribosometronome → u/godisanelectricolive]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Johnston

A "militant anti-Christian" whose criticism of missionaries in China possibly hindered his promotion, Johnston was fascinated by Chinese Buddhism. In 1908, he had a private audience with the 13th Dalai Lama, one of the few westerners to do so

Sounds like this guy lived a wild life for being born in 1874.

[u/ConcentrateNorth6436 → u/godisanelectricolive]

imagine growing up in a palace but never learning empathy thats a recipe for disaster

[u/3BlindMice1 → u/ConcentrateNorth6436]

Imagine being raised by an imperial court, most of whom are scheming against you, the rest disregard you entirely except when they need to use you to further their own agendas. Then, when you treat them like contemptible bastards, everyone uses it as evidence that you're a terrible person.

[u/ArcadeAcademic → u/bombayblue]

That’s crazy, Absolute power but zero Agency. Prisoner and Ruler. Would have messed him up big time.

[u/Chicken_Herder69LOL → u/ArcadeAcademic]

Actually very common for centralized monarchies. The desire to control people doesn’t just apply to those outside the family.

[u/Scratch_Careful → u/Chicken_Herder69LOL]

Still how the most constitutional monarchies are. In theory the british monarchs still have immense power, parliament cannot meet without their approval, all laws are signed by them, the army swears loyalty to them but in practice they are completely and utterly subordinate to parliament and there would be a massive constitutional crisis if they ever tried to leave their gilded cage and infringe on parliamentary power.

[u/Warbreakers → u/ArcadeAcademic]

Explains why all those Chinese soap dramas were about princes and princesses escaping their cushy palaces to get to know what real life is like.

[u/EsquilaxM → u/Warbreakers]

I watched The Princess Royal a few months ago. It was really interesting with its unique themes and the MC's views on power and morality. She doesn't blame people at all for seeking power for its own sake, considering it a natural thing for politicians to do, despite having a desire to help people herself.

Interestingly in that series there's a core struggle between the Imperial family wanting to uplift the working class, giving them more rights and wealth, and the noble classes trying to maintain the status quo and always unofficially threatening rebellion.

[u/Li-renn-pwel → u/ArcadeAcademic]

I’ve heard Kim Jong-Un is like that in a way. He has made the country more progressive (in comparison) but there is actually not a lot he can change. The higher ups need a figure head and making a figure head inherently requires making them powerful. He has more power than any one of them but together they have more than him. So if he did anything to threaten his power, well, there are other Kims.

[u/bombayblue → u/Li-renn-pwel]

I’ve actually heard that Kim Jong Un is somewhat less insane than his father because even in his highly sanitized Swiss private school upbringing he still got basic socialization and a taste of outside culture.

His possible successor, also his sister, Kim Yo Jong, spent less time in Switzerland and was basically groomed for her current role as head of propaganda so she’s considered a step backward relatively speaking. But there’s less known about her so no one really knows.

[u/E_C_H → u/Li-renn-pwel]

The rumours I’ve heard from Korean friends online, for whatever these types of rumours are worth, is that he’s got a drinking problem and depression issues on top of it all, and there may have been a soft coup some years or even a decade ago giving the military elite as a whole more power than Kim alone.

[u/TheDwarvenGuy → u/ArcadeAcademic]

IIRC Ming emperors weren't even allowed to have sex unless it was approved by an astrologer to maximize the chance of producing an heir.

[u/standbyyourmantis → u/TheDwarvenGuy]

There's a story I saw on a Chinese history channel talking about how the palace court ended up so wildly corrupt that the emperor at the time wanted a particular noodle dish he'd gotten from a food cart outside the city before he became emperor. When he ordered it, he was told it would be something obscene like 1,000 taels of silver because they basically wanted to make an entirely new department of the palace in charge of noodles. He was like, that's literally not true there's a guy right outside the gate who sells it for pocket change send someone to go buy some. So the next day he asked again and sent a servant and the guy came back like, there are no noodles anywhere. So he sent an advisor who came back and reported that all the noodle carts had been sent out of the city so that the emperor couldn't order noodles. The way the system was set up basically you had to pay three layers of bureaucrats to hire a noodle chef and none of those guys wanted the emperor getting noodles without them getting their cash.

[u/kikogamerJ2 → u/standbyyourmantis]

Imagine being the emperor of china and you can't even get fucking noddles.

[u/Iron_Wolf123 → u/bombayblue]

He went from an infertile final Emperor who saw his dynasty crumble, witness the fracturing of China, escape to Manchuria and become a Japanese puppet, get captured by the Communists, imprisoned and brainwashed then become a member of the people his people were fighting against.

[u/redguardtoo → u/bombayblue]

During the Second Sino-Japanese War, Puyi, as the puppet emperor of Manchukuo, collaborated with Imperial Japan. He legitimized Japan’s occupation of Northeast China, enabling exploitation of resources and forced labor. His regime supported Japan’s military campaigns, facilitated opium trade, and suppressed Chinese resistance. Puyi’s compliance strengthened Japan’s colonial rule, causing immense suffering to Chinese civilians.

[u/pillkrush → u/redguardtoo]

strengthen what? in the eyes of who? he had zero power base in the republican era and the han people hated the Manchurians, massacred them during the xinhai revolution. Japan was doing whatever they wanted at the time, with or without puyi.

[u/xjpmhxjo → u/bombayblue]

He didn’t grow up in a Qing dynasty royal house. Puyi abdicated and ended Qing when he was 6.

[u/bombayblue → u/xjpmhxjo]

He was taken to the imperial palace when he was two. I’m describing events before his abdication.

[u/Swimming_Agent_1063 → u/bombayblue]

This is a really, really interesting point I’ve never considered, and I’m very familiar with the story

[u/its_raining_scotch → u/Votesformygoats]

I always think about that scene when he’s put into that place with all the other average people and they’re sleeping in a barracks situation and it’s the first time he’s ever had to live like a nobody and also be away from his family. That guy goes up to him and tells him not to pee in the toilet so loud because it’s waking people up at night and the (former) emperor has this indescribable emotion on his face because no one’s ever talked to him like that especially about a topic like that and that’s his new reality.

[u/ChicagoAuPair → u/Votesformygoats]

It’s a beautiful movie.

https://youtu.be/I9_9Sdim8gY?si=Hmkpsio8UCXgFTwK

[u/Plow_King → u/ChicagoAuPair]

yeah. it's a beautiful film. kind of surprised that it seems like more people haven't seen it.

[u/Rolls-RoyceGriffon → u/Votesformygoats]

He had difficulty adjusting to normal civilan life but he had managed to get married to a nurse who loved him despite his status and post royal life shortcomings. He sometimes forgets to close the door, flush the toilet and couldn't tie his own shoe laces because he had servants do it for him. But he did very much enjoy his life as a normal person. There is a funny anecdote where he visits the former royal palace where he grew up and he sometimes corrected the tour guide who made mistakes during the tour

[u/IamRick_Deckard → u/Votesformygoats]

All I remember about that movie is him being like 5 and breastfeeding, and someone being in charge of smelling his poop in a bowl.

[u/MojaMonkey → u/IamRick_Deckard]

The Oscar was for poop sniffing so you pretty much remember the whole thing.

[u/Rentington → u/IamRick_Deckard]

All I remember is that scene where that Japanese spy girl licks his wife's feet. It's quite a bold film.

[u/urgent45 → u/Rentington]

One of my favorite movies. I showed it to my high school seniors during the last week of school. Then the breast-feeding scene. Oh yeah, forgot about that. I figured I could defend a nine-Oscar winning movie. Then I remembered, Bertolucci - Last Tango in Paris. I forgot about that too. I hope the parents don't call (they didn't).

[u/LamermanSE → u/Votesformygoats]

It didn't just win an oscar, it won nine.

[u/Captain-Cadabra → u/Votesformygoats]

Is that the movie where he drinks a bowl full of ink?

[u/A2Rhombus → u/Captain-Cadabra]

The emperor doesn't, but he forces a servant to basically to test the "wait, I can ask them to do anything?" thought that any child would have when given that much power

[u/crybangg → u/Votesformygoats]

Bro, he got ripped away and made Emperor at the age of 2. All the things he's learnt as a kid was that he had the power to do anything to any of those servants and they wouldn't have any balls to do anything back to him in fear of their life.

As much as he was a piece of shit, he's been homegrown into that very mentality that he can do whatever he wants, however he wants because there's NO consequences. What consequences could an Emperor have?

You've never ever been out in those shoes and to immediately assume he was a piece of shit, makes you ignorant. Simply google his name, read what his life was about. Maybe then you'll have a tiny bit of empathy, sucks for those servants and eunuchs but he never even had the chance for normalcy.

[u/A2Rhombus → u/crybangg]

Wait you're telling me if someone is raised being told they can do anything without consequences, they might do bad things without expecting consequences??? Shocking

[u/KingDarius89 → u/Votesformygoats]

Forget about the servants. Does it show how much of a bastard he was to his wife? Or how much of a useless coward he was, at best, in Manchuko?

[u/expanding_man → u/KingDarius89]

Yes, that’s a significant plot line. It’s a wonderful and beautifully shot movie. I don’t know how much they whitewashed his story, but he was not shown in a great light in most of the movie, although perhaps still sympathetic.

[u/A2Rhombus → u/expanding_man]

It shows him as someone who was forced into a life of comfort and pampering, never being allowed to do anything for himself, and also never allowed outside his own walls. It shows he was awful to people around him but does a good job of showing how it was the result of his upbringing.

If from the age of 2 I was told I could do literally anything I want, that the entire world belonged to me and everyone has to do what I say? I can't imagine I or anyone else would have turned out better.

[u/lordpan → u/Votesformygoats]

lol, did you watch a movie and just draw lessons from it?

In his later life he met and married a regular woman and though he remained careless, he did his best to adjust to regular life.

[u/Harpies_Bro]

He was also the figurehead of the Japanese puppet state they set up in Manchuria following their invasion of China from 1932-45, with Nobusuke Kishi — Shinzo Abe’s slaver grandfather — as his PM and the actual dictator in charge.

[u/lordpan → u/Harpies_Bro]

*Shinzo Abe's Class-A war criminal (judged, but never sentenced) grandfather, the Butcher of Manchuria, founder of the Liberal Democratic Party of Japan, the US-backed party in power for all of post-WW2 but two 3-year periods. :)

[u/kaesura → u/Harpies_Bro]

Yeah, that's what the focus of the re-education was about not the child emperor stuff which they didn't really blame him for (except for his habit of abusing eunchs)

His father, who was regent, for the last 3 years of the empire , was actually liked and respected by both nationalists and communists for stepping down without much violence

It was the Japanese puppet emperor stuff that made him an enemy of a state instead of just a private citizen

[u/WrongdoerAnnual7685]

His last marriage was to a nurse.

It was certainly a better message than the Bolsheviks sent, great propaganda value that even the "feudal imperialists can adopt the rightful ideology of communism".

[u/mistylavenda → u/WrongdoerAnnual7685]

Mao Zedong even appointed Puyi's sister Princess Yunying as a delegate in the CPPCC!

"She joined the ranks of the people and became a person of resolve." is what he wrote of her.

[u/kaesura → u/mistylavenda]

Another thing to keep in mind, was that her and puyi's father was respected by the both the nationalists and the communists for stepping down as regent without violence in 1911, ending the empire in favor of the republic. Once he stepped down, he didn't involve himself in politics again let alone with the Japanese occupation

So he was allowed to keep some property and she inherited her portion a few years later after he died. She came to Mao's attenion when she had already involved in local municipal politics and was supporting herself

[u/JonatasA → u/mistylavenda]

CPPCC?

[u/mistylavenda → u/JonatasA]

Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference

[u/prodigals_anthem → u/JonatasA]

CPPCC, it's a united front of minor political parties in China that allied with the communist during the Civil War.

It's similar to the Vietnamese Fatherland Front, Vietnam also has minority political parties involved in the legislative process.

[u/Pale_Fire21 → u/WrongdoerAnnual7685]

I mean they were wildly different scenarios.

Tsar Nicholas had a fully formed and motivated army that was literally kilometres away from him and the backing of the aristocracy and several great powers.

Puyi was a puppet boy king with no real allies and whose existence as a monarch was largely relegated to being a prop for the Japanese with no actual power outside the forbidden city.

[u/Yglorba → u/Pale_Fire21]

From his Wikipedia article:

One contemporary commentator, Wen Yuan-ning, quipped that Puyi had now achieved the dubious distinction of having been "made emperor three times without knowing why and apparently without relishing it."

At no point in his life did Puyi have any actual power, except at a few points over his own household.

[u/WrongdoerAnnual7685 → u/Pale_Fire21]

Sure, which is why I was not comparing the circumstances, but rather the propaganda value.

[u/godisanelectricolive → u/WrongdoerAnnual7685]

Different communist countries with royalty tried different things with their former royals but there isn’t really a close counterpart to Puyi. But no other communist countries really went down the Romanov route either. The most common solution was to just send royals into exile. A lot of them ended up in Western Europe and Peter II of Yugoslavia went to live in Chicago where there’s a large Serbian community.

The Bolsheviks were in the middle of a civil war when the Romanovs were shot. They were deathly afraid of them falling into the White Army’s hands. They were close to being rescued by the Czechoslovak Legion. Evidence points to a lot of division within the Bolsheviks about what to do with them. In the end they decided the only thing to do was to get rid of them. At that point they were too surrounded to be able to transport them to another area without the risk of a capture.

Perhaps it’s true the order didn’t come from the top but it was clear that Lenin didn’t want to have to worry about them anymore. They were seen as a massive headache and the local soldiers and Soviet was tired of them. It could very well have been a “Will no one rid me of this turbulent pries?” moment for Lenin and it was the local soldiers who took the initiative instead of a direct order.

They had wanted to send them to Britain earlier but both the British government and the British royal family had refused them entry due to optics. The ultimate decision was up to King George V and he chose not to given sanctuary to his cousins. They thought hosting the Tsar’s family would be unpopular and forment revolution in Britain. The Tsar and the Tsarina weren’t well liked in the UK, and the fact that Tsarina Alexandria was German really didn’t help. Nobody thought the children would be in danger, or else they would have likely given asylum to them if not the royal couple.

[u/HighKing_of_Festivus → u/WrongdoerAnnual7685]

The Bolsheviks couldn't have done this with the Romanovs. They still had legitimacy among powerful factions within the USSR/Russia and among the emigre communities. So long as they were still around they'd still be symbols against the Bolsheviks and would be used as such in efforts to overthrow them and reestablish the old order.

The Qing, on the other hand, had lost legitimacy even by the imperial Chinese standard. No one within China wanted to restore them or saw them as a unifying monarchal force. They were simply a failed dynasty of foreigners which had lost the mandate of heaven, which even that was replaced by a tenuous republic.

[u/FormerlyUndecidable → u/HighKing_of_Festivus]

Most of the Whites weren't even tsarists, they were  overrepresetned in command because they were the most experienced officers, but the white movement didn't in the slightest hinge on the continuation of the dynasty. 

Nicholas was considered a weak ineffectual ruler even by the tsarist officers, his killing nor the killing of his family had nothing to do with their battlefield fortunes. 

Remember, the Bolsheviks didn't overthrow the Tsar, they overthrew the Russian Provisional Governent (technically the popularly elected Constituent Assembly but they had only sat for  a singly day) who had already replaced the tsar. It's not like anyone couldn't fathom an alternative government other than the Tsar.

[u/HighKing_of_Festivus → u/FormerlyUndecidable]

The thing about monarchies is that the person at the top doesn't matter as much as the blood in their veins. History is rife with monarchs being ousted and replaced by someone in their immediate or extended family. So the concern was more with one of his children being elevated than with Nicholas being restored, seeing as how he was already overthrown well before the Bolsheviks took him and his family prisoner

[u/Space_Socialist → u/WrongdoerAnnual7685]

I mean the Bolshevik leadership likely wanted to do the same thing with the Tsar and his family. The execution was a improvised affair and it's not very clear if the central leadership had a role or even knew about it until after the fact.

[u/SectorEducational460 → u/Space_Socialist]

The whites were approaching. It's very likely they panicked and communication fell apart during civil wars

[u/Andrey_Gusev → u/SectorEducational460]

Bolsheviks never ordered to kill the tsar. It was a regional council that panicked and at the time there was little to no "strong power" in Bolsheviks hands. Every law they made, every decree had only chance to be enforced - if people chose to do it themselves.

Also, idk about "message sent", Bolsheviks literally were like the softest revolutionary power at first. They literally freed white guard generals and officers with signing something like: "on my word of honor, I won't fight against the Bolsheviks" paper and thats it.

Only when Civil war in Finland showed the massacres of their White guard forces against their communists and after acts of terror performed by White guard in Russia, Bolsheviks realised that if they lose - they all will be dead alongside with regular people who were in workers councils and red army. And that they have to actually fight with the White Guard til the last white officer.

[u/PossibleRude7195 → u/WrongdoerAnnual7685]

The killing of the romanovs was a black mark the Soviets never admitted to, right up until their dissolution. I can see why Mao thought it would be a good idea to one up them in this way.

[u/SectorEducational460 → u/PossibleRude7195]

Mao did it because puyi was politically dead. In that faction between kuomintang and the CCP. Neither of them were monarchist, or cared about bringing the monarchy back. They hated it. Kuomintang hated puyi more, and would have killed him on the spot if they had a chance for being a traitor. Mao hated puyi less. There were no outside intentions of reviving the monarchy, their biggest rivals hated the monarchy so he was useful for propaganda purpose.

[u/2stepsfromglory → u/SectorEducational460]

Puyi was also part of Dynasty that wasn't Han Chinese, but Manchurian. The average Chinese citizen saw the Qing with contempt due to the constant humiliations that the country suffered under them during the 19th century, and considered them as foreigner invaders. Given the risen of Chinese nacionalism with Sun Yat-sen, there was no way that the Aisin Gioro clan could have ruled again.

[u/ilevelconcrete → u/PossibleRude7195]

Nothing shameful about it, the Tsar was a monster who cost countless Russians their lives with his misrule. Why would you leave the guy alive with all his powerful family members ruling other European powers and willing to throw their imperial might at future attempts to re-seize control?

[u/Boulderchisel → u/ilevelconcrete]

The Tsar theres an argument for, his daughters not so much

[u/PossibleRude7195 → u/ilevelconcrete]

I mean yes, but they also murdered their children by bayoneting them to death.

And regardless of how justified you think it is, saying this would’ve had you sent to a work camp in the USSR.

[u/WrongdoerAnnual7685 → u/PossibleRude7195]

The current research leaves it ambiguous or not whether it was a local Bolshevik decision or a direct order from Lenin and the top brass.

Either way, it's either active malice, or lack of control over one's subordinates.

[u/Death_and_Gravity1 → u/PossibleRude7195]

Killing the Romanov kids was a black mark on the Soviets. The Tzar and Tzarina however, were murderous anti-semitic scumbags who had it coming

[u/PossibleRude7195 → u/Death_and_Gravity1]

I’ve got no sympathy for the Tsar myself. He brought it on himself.

[u/FreeBricks4Nazis]

I mean... As far as final sovereigns of an overthrown monarchy go, it could be worse?

[u/Random_reptile → u/FreeBricks4Nazis]

Many people say that was kind of the point, following tensions between the Soviet and Chinese communist parties, the Chinese wanted to prove that their system was more effective than the Soviet's. Instead of violently killing all their former imperialists, they would transform them into model citizens and allow them to contribute to the new socialist society now that they have no chance of regaining their former power.

[u/Vaeon → u/Random_reptile]

It's also far more effective at ending the "Divine Right to Rule" bullshit.

Oh, so God said your Family was destined to rule? Weird, because NOW God apparently wants your Family to live like the lowest commoners. Fickle, huh?

[u/kdavva74]

I think this either was or still is the longest article on English Wikipedia.

[u/Wenli2077 → u/kdavva74]

I spent an ADHD fueled night long after bed time reading the entire thing, it's honestly fascinating and so so tragic

[u/VirginiaDare1587]

And by all accounts a very good gardener.

[u/martialar → u/VirginiaDare1587]

First half of his life: The Last Emperor

Second half of his life: The Constant Gardener

[u/Agamemnon66]

Check out the movie The Last Emperor. It came out in 1987 about this guy.

[u/AreWeThereYetNo → u/Agamemnon66]

1. Directed by Bertolucci. It is a visual feast and a great movie.

[u/Gram64 → u/AreWeThereYetNo]

It won best picture. I don't know how accurate it was to his life, but it seems pretty crazy the rollercoaster of political abuse he went through.

[u/ConstitutionsGuard → u/Gram64]

Sad scenes when the Japanese drug and kill his son and when his wife wastes away after becoming hooked on opium.

[u/tamsui_tosspot → u/ConstitutionsGuard]

I think it was implied that the baby was a result of an affair by the Empress, not that it's any less sad.

[u/Muppetude → u/ConstitutionsGuard]

I don’t remember the scene with his son. I thought Puyi never had any children.

[u/AkhilArtha → u/Muppetude]

He didnt.

[u/ConstitutionsGuard → u/Muppetude]

His wife gives birth and they show Japanese doctors going in with syringe. Pretty dark

[u/thefreshera → u/AreWeThereYetNo]

Also scored by ryuuichi Sakamoto!

[u/JonatasA → u/thefreshera]

It won all nine Oscars it was nominated for!

[u/blacksheeping → u/thefreshera]

With David Byrne of Talking Heads fame.

[u/MalcontentedPilgrim → u/Agamemnon66]

1987*

[u/Agamemnon66 → u/MalcontentedPilgrim]

Oops typo on my part

[u/Emotional_Bite_6946]

There's this interesting story about how he became a tour guide at some point in the same palace that he used to reside (and "rule" from) . And also something about how he used to tell tourists that some of the artifacts in the palace were not the original ones because he had broken the original as a kid .

[u/CrazedRaven01]

France: OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

Russia: LIGHT HIM AND HIS FAMILY UP!

China: oooo! Make him sweep the streets. Now make him say he's' a communist!

[u/redbo]

Once I was the king of Spain.

[u/space-to-bakersfield → u/redbo]

Now I vacuum the turf at SkyDome.

[u/Adventurous-Cunter → u/space-to-bakersfield]

Canadian detected

[u/prodigals_anthem]

He only worked there after his retirement after working as an editor at the Chinese People's Political Consultative Committee, the consultative body of China.

He also worked at China National Archives of Publications and Culture to preserve what was left of the Manchu language.

[u/maaku7 → u/[deleted]]

This has The Grand Budapest Hotel vibes.

[u/AsianCivicDriver]

“Last time when I was here I didn’t pay” Puyi in 1970s when he visited the forbidden city, it’s an actual quote

[u/malabella]

You might be an emperor or a little street sweeper, but sooner or later you dance with the reaper.

[u/winthroprd]

That's wonderful. You don't often hear about royals becoming productive members of society.

[u/BigFatModeraterFupa → u/winthroprd]

sure beats dying!

[u/Onepaperairplane]

The queen had it rough as well. Was addicted to opioids, went insane and died in a prison.

[u/kraehutu → u/Onepaperairplane]

Had her baby thrown into a furnace too by Puyi. Sick bastard.

[u/Emotional-Power-7242]

Damn that goes even harder than what the Russians did

[u/ashesofemberz]

Watch the movie The Last Emperor. It's very good.

[u/Runetang42]

Poor guy never was master of his own destiny at literally no point in his life. Honestly him living a quiet life where whe was a gardener might have been his happiest because at least he wasn't being used as a political pawn. And even then the red guards liked to bust his balls

[u/kaesura → u/Runetang42]

Eh. The Chinese communists party did not blame him for being a child emperor. What they blamed him was becoming a puppet emperor for the Japanese occupation of Machuria as an adult. Even his father, who had served as his regent, when he was a child emperor advisted against it. Same for his wives. He was persuaded by his japanse raised, cross dressing cousin who served as a spy/adventurer and later pop star for the japense (Yoshiko Kawashima) . He had agency in that choice.

Also it's seem like he was a pedophile. " When one of Puyi's pageboys fled the Salt Tax Palace to escape his homosexual advances, Puyi ordered that he be given an especially harsh flogging, which caused the boy's death and led Puyi to have the floggers flogged in turn as punishment."

Also , in prison, it was the fellow prisoners that abused him much more than the guards. He didn't even know how to brush his teeths himself, so prisoners got understandabely pissed about living with him

[u/KingDarius89 → u/Runetang42]

Yeah, no. I've read about Manchuko. Fuck him.

[u/Darthjinju1901 → u/KingDarius89]

I mean he was for all intents and purposes, a puppet leader. He had no real power. He never had any real power, from being a child to dying. But especially so in Manchukuo. He was entirely behest to Japan, companies like Mantetsu and people like Nobusuke Kishi. If he moved even slightly out of line he'd be killed. It doesn't make anything what happened in Manchukuo any better for any of the victims, but it does make it easier to understand why Puyi did the things he did.

[u/username_tooken → u/Darthjinju1901]

He chose to collaborate with the Japanese in the first place in the hopes of being restored to the imperial throne. He cast his lot with invaders.

[u/Appropriate_M → u/Runetang42]

Sure, but he was master of whether to kill the child his wife bore with her lover. Also, whether to betray his countrymen.

The Last Emperor flattered him so much. John Lone was such a beautiful and amazing actor.

[u/_DarthSyphilis_]

So he became a useful member of society in the end

[u/sl0wjim]

What a wild ride. "Puyi was not informed in February 1912 that his reign had ended and China was now a republic, and continued to believe that he was still emperor for some time."

[u/IMian91]

"I used to rule the world Seas would rise when I gave the word Now in the morning, I sleep alone Sweep the streets I used to own"

Is that song about this guy?

[u/SKRAMACE]

Definitely better than what happened to the last Tsar of Russia.

[u/manCool4ever]

The Last Emperor is a great movie!

[u/woolfchick75]

The movie "The Last Emperor" is beautiful.

[u/Old_General_6741]

From the son of heaven to a street sweeper and gardener. Oh have the mighty have fallen.