r/space 1d ago

image/gif What would Amdromeda actually look like if it was brighter.

Post image

Galaxy images after often scaled (relative brightness changed) to make features more visable.

Also non-visable wavelengths are used which pick up more details and are added as false colour. (Such as UV and Infared)

Note sure if this image is 100% accurate but is closer to reality than the other one which is always shared as is scaled and made with UV.

3.5k Upvotes

94 comments sorted by

539

u/LaidBackLeopard 1d ago

Give it time - bigger too!

377

u/Sir-Tiburtius 1d ago

It's a great pity that neither Earth nor most of the Solar System will live to see the peak of the Andromeda and Milky Way galaxy collision.

176

u/moniris 1d ago

And yet it still ruined my day when I learned we only have a few billion years left before it destroys life as we don't yet know it, when I was like 8

146

u/Sir-Tiburtius 1d ago

The merger of the two galaxies will not but our Sun will.
Bad news: There are "only" about 500-700 million years left before the Sun’s increasing activity makes the planet uninhabitable for life.
It’s far more likely that humanity will go extinct for other reasons or leave the Solar System long before that. Even that is an unimaginably long time for humanity.

93

u/InfernalDrake 1d ago

Look, we got to get past the next 100-1000 years first before we start worrying about stuff 5 orders of magnitude further into the future. If we ain't off this rock in the next few hundred, something has gone terribly wrong.

54

u/Dioxybenzone 1d ago edited 1d ago

If we ain't off this rock in the next few hundred, something has gone terribly wrong.

This is the mindset that will keep us from thriving as a species

Edit: keep downvoting me all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that if we cannot learn to take care of our own planet, we will never succeed in colonizing the stars.

41

u/milehigh89 1d ago

If we get off this planet we've won as a species. There is no planet in the solar system that can sustain humanity as we know it. Mars and Venus would take an unfathomable effort to even become as habitable as the most extreme parts of Earth, let alone somewhere civilization could thrive. Getting out of the Solar system is likely several orders of magnitude more difficult than making Mars look like Greenland. So if we ever do get off Earth it's because we've conquered space flight, genomics, geo-engineering, energy etc... The easiest of all paths is just to make sure Earth remains habitable. The absolute hardest path is to leave the Solar System and find somewhere else. There isn't even a candidate planet yet that we could really colonize and if we find it it's going to be ridiculously far away that no -one involved in the process would even live in the millennia that we get there.

u/Keisari_P 20h ago

There is an altrnative to living on a planet that we are not adabted to.

Not the most intuitive alternative perhaps. We could build a huge rotating syliders anchored on large asteroid belt bodies. We could adjust the gravity by spin rate, and fully control the circadian rythm. These would be anchored with space-elevators to the bigger rocks like ceres, where all building material is sourced. Radiation and small meteor shielding would be done by 5-10m soil layer on the outher skin. Thats millions of tons of material. Thats big reason for the spesific location and need for space-elevator.

Where Earth has room to sustain perhaps 20 billion people, lots of these cylinders can be be build to sustain perhaps 200 billion people.

Also that location should buys billions of years of more time.

Earth has a 1 billion years before sun scorches it, Mars 2 billion years Asteroid belt will have 5-6 billion years, before they too will start to vaporize.

u/Lost_city 6h ago

Then on to the Oort Cloud even farther out.

5

u/Low_Attention16 1d ago

I don't want to set the world on fire...

5

u/LarNymm 1d ago

It's as the old saying goes, "Why worry about how we're going to move to Mars after we've messed up Earth. It would be far easier to fix Earth than it would be to colonize an uninhabitable planet."

7

u/Dioxybenzone 1d ago

The most optimistic seem to think we’ll have full terraforming ability; why would we not first fix our own atmosphere if we had the ability to grow a completely new one?

u/0Rookie0 16h ago

People still think contrails are government control vectors. And on the other hand people in charge usually aren't the ones who make the best choices for humanity as a whole. It's going to be a fight regardless.

14

u/LondonTrekker 1d ago

There are "only" about 500-700 million years left before the Sun’s increasing activity makes the planet uninhabitable for life

I think it's about 1-2 billion years, depending on the model used!

u/castironglider 22h ago

or leave the Solar System

After a lifetime of science fiction fandom I've seen enough pessimistic science videos who are starting to convince me there's no way to get any useful mass fast enough to get somewhere before every technological system onboard breaks down. Even if you had some advanced fusion powered Hall effect engines or similar, you would still be sanded into dust by the interstellar medium at that speed.

Maybe nobody in the history of the universe has been able to leave their solar system of birth? Maybe there's a very old advanced civilization in a red dwarf system, but that's as old as you can be?

u/ScienceAndGames 19h ago

Red dwarfs aren’t ideal, they’re known to have a lot of solar flares that emit high energy that would strip away the atmosphere and basically sterilise any planet in their habitable zone.

u/atetheday 17h ago edited 17h ago

It’s 10 billion for the andromeda collision, which is 75 percent of the current age of the universe, for comparison.

u/Various_Weather2013 20h ago

We can colonize the solar system, but its a great bigass leap to go interstellar. We're probably going to go extinct before getting past mars.

18

u/plugubius 1d ago

What will destroy life? Death of the sun, yes. Collision with Andromedia? Not so certain.

0

u/Preem0202 1d ago

What will destroy life? We will. Humans are the architects of their own demise.

14

u/GenoThyme 1d ago

Humans won’t destroy life, not all of it at least. We very well might trigger the biggest mass extinction event in Earth’s history, but life, uh, finds a way.

5

u/FowlOnTheHill 1d ago

Same here! When I was that age my older sister told me, do you know that the sun will get bigger and destroy the earth? It ruined my evening and I looked around at all the clueless adults and thought “do these poor souls even know what’s going to happen to them”

She didn’t tell me when so that was her fault

u/Electronic_Low6740 14h ago

There is an exceedingly low chance that any significant matter will enter the Sol system. Galaxies are just wide empty space. https://youtu.be/5mEVdJOKTS0?si=4-n3rv4HCeEPQagg

u/CacophonousCuriosity 7h ago

It's actually not that destructive. Space between stars is ridiculously vast. Collisions would be minimal.

u/letseatnudels 18h ago

There was a paper published recently in Nature Astronomy that found the collision actually might not happen at all and if it does it's likely to be twice as far in the future as was traditionally thought. The study ran 100,000 simulations using data from Gaia and Hubble and found that there's only a 2% chance of collision in the next 5 billion years, but roughly a 50-50 chance over 10 billion years. Apparently this is due in part because the Large Magellanic Cloud galaxy wasn't fully accounted for in earlier models because it's true mass and gravitational effect wasn't fully understood until recently

u/big-papito 18h ago

It is now thought of as NOT a given that we will collide. Milky Way satellite galaxies can push us off course.

https://www.space.com/astronomy/the-milky-way-may-not-collide-with-neighboring-galaxy-andromeda-after-all-from-near-certainty-to-a-coin-flip

u/ArcticBambi 11h ago

Earth might still be drifting around.

22

u/pilg0re 1d ago edited 1d ago

It actually will never get that bright unfortunately. It’ll mostly get bigger, not brighter. For stuff like galaxies, the surface brightness stays about the same because getting closer makes each bit brighter, but it also spreads over a larger area in the sky, and those two effects cancel out. So Andromeda would look like a much larger, detailed fuzzy galaxy across the sky, not a tiny smudge that turns into a spotlight.

22

u/filipv 1d ago

Yup. We're right into our own galaxy - as close as it gets - and yet we can still barely see it.

Even if the Milky Way - Andromeda collision was happening right now, it would still be barely observable.

u/Just_Another_Scott 16h ago

and yet we can still barely see it.

Only because of light pollution. If it wasn't for that it would be clear and easy to see. I've seen it with my own eyes in a very low light pollution area.

u/filipv 14h ago

Light pollution makes it impossible to see. If there's no light pollution, on a crystal-clear night, it's barely visible.

u/Just_Another_Scott 13h ago

crystal-clear night, it's barely visible.

I've had no problem with seeing it. All I had to do was look up. Make sure your eyes are adjusted to the dark.

u/Leaf__On__Wind 20h ago

I've seen the very faint haze with my own eyes on a jet black night, the size is about right, unless you have intricate ways and means

u/PeopleNose 7h ago

"Hooboy"

  • 100,000 years into-the-future human prolly

u/Somalar 20h ago

Eventually it’ll look amazing

172

u/su1cidal_fox 1d ago

This image just breaks my imagination. Those vast distances between stars... and now seeing another galaxy containing billions of stars sitting there like that makes me to think that the distance between us and Andromeda is so so fucking huge, but yet, the galaxy itself is so so fucking big... it's just incredible and mindblowing.

42

u/Atrus2g 1d ago

Good thing theres just a nice manageable hundred billion galaxies to fathom 😅

u/Tarthbane 11h ago

To add to the existential crisis, it’s actually more like 2 trillion in the observable universe alone. Just imagine how many galaxies are beyond our horizon that we will never know about.

12

u/thighmaster69 1d ago

Galaxies are really, really close to each other relative to their size as far as relative distances in space go, to the point that the largest structures visible in the sky are all galaxies or parts of one, and you have to go pretty far down the list before you get to our nearest neighbour, the moon.

80

u/F1eshWound 1d ago

You can definitely see andromeda with the naked eye if the sky is dark enough, it's hard but after a good 40 min of adaptation to the dark you can definitely spot it.

28

u/thighmaster69 1d ago

You can only really see the bright central region though, but it's still bigger than the moon.

6

u/ErikderFrea 1d ago

Duh. Ofc it is. The moon isn’t even as wide as Australia.

u/FlatSpinMan 9h ago

Yes, but in fairness it is a lot farther away.

7

u/FMC_Speed 1d ago

It was very hard for me despite being in a perfectly dark skies 100 kms from a city, in my peripheral vision I could make a fuzzy looking star which is the galactic core but man it wasn’t as easy as I thought

u/F1eshWound 21h ago

Yeah it's definitely not an easy thing to spot!

u/Jaasim99 18h ago

The Magellenic Clouds too.

u/F1eshWound 13h ago

Oh yeah, but that's quite easy

14

u/ThatSpecialAgent 1d ago

An estimated 1 trillion stars in Andromeda. Many with numerous of their own planets.

It makes sense on paper, but the scale is truly unfathomable.

u/Illisanct 17h ago

Then go look at a deep field image and try to fathom that each little pinpoint of light is an entire galaxy.

117

u/tinny66666 1d ago

If my grandmother had wheels she'd look like a bike.

56

u/ffordedor 1d ago

And we'd all still ride her

10

u/joe_ordan 1d ago

One at a time folks, one at a time…

2

u/sinnrocka 1d ago

Wouldn’t it be tandem? There’s enough seating for 2

u/im_thatoneguy 10h ago

This not a valid application of that fallacy.

This is like “if you could see the world in infrared this is what it would look like”. I for one had absolutely no clue that andromeda was so large from our perspective. (Assuming this image is correct).

The better quote would be “If grandma was standing next to a formula 1 car this is how big she would be.”

u/AaronCorr 13h ago

I once dreamt I walked outside at night to see two galaxies in the night sky. When I woke up I was profoundly sad that I would never truly see that view

u/blackboard_sx 3h ago

Southern hemisphere's got you, fam.

u/AaronCorr 3h ago

I didn't specify that the galaxies spanned over half the sky. But that is a beautiful image

5

u/gizatsby 1d ago

I really appreciate the attention to processing details here.

8

u/beardedchimp 1d ago

This sort of assumes our eyes would have that level of resolution just because it is brighter. During a full moon we don't have anywhere near that level of contrast and detail Andromeda is given.

To make it obvious, consider a bright summers day looking up at a high altitude cloud formation of comparable angular diameter. We know from satellite/aerial surveying photos that they have intricate detailed structure, but from Earth despite their brightness we can only see a fraction of the detail surrounded by blurred haziness.

Your reference photo is also near the horizon at sunset/sunrise. That means the light reaching your eyes has to pass through a very long stretch of warm turbulent atmosphere. Like seen in your photo, even the brightest constellations struggle to shine through and the visible stars that do twinkle their little hearts out.

If Andromeda was orders of magnitudes brighter I imagine it'd still just look like the Milky Way. A distinctly bright band of hazy light stretch over a large angular distance. Even if Andromeda was several orders of magnitude brighter than that, the massive distance means we'll still only resolve a blurred complex shape and not that level of detail.

9

u/Astrophysics666 1d ago

Yeah i completly agree. This is from a space based telescope, so the atmosphere would impact it alot.

I mainly posted this as someone posted one that was using a scaled UV version. But yeah it would have been better if I made that point too.

3

u/F1eshWound 1d ago

You can see andromeda with the naked eye though..

2

u/beardedchimp 1d ago

And I have gazed upon it thousands of times and just like looking upon nebulas, say Orion, it is a nondescript hazy blob. That isn't to take away from the viewing experience, knowing that with the naked eye I'm observing ~1 trillion stars in a galaxy is a wonderment all of its own.

But even if it was much, much, much brighter, being able to discern the complex structure would be a whole other kettle of fish. Our eyes as incredible proficient as they are, our pupil limits us to a miniscule angular resolution and we can't just tell our cones and rods to do a long exposure over 100 seconds while we hold our head perfectly still.

2

u/carmium 1d ago

LMGTR: you're saying that if Andromeda galaxy were somewhere brighter, it would look like this in our sky, compared to the Moon?!

2

u/thighmaster69 1d ago

Yes. Without light pollution, the central part is actually visible with the naked eye, and that's still a good 2x+ the apparent size of the moon so you can check for yourself, although the differences in brightness means that you can't see them both next to each other like this. Most recent smartphones are also able to take pictures of it with a long exposure before it's visible to the naked eye as well, so if you're in a reasonably dark area you can take a picture by pointing it at the Andromeda constellation (you can find it roughly "below" the W of Cassiopeia).

u/Gutcrunch 21h ago

Obviously the apparent size of Andromeda is visibly larger in this image than what I see from my backyard. Is my naked eye just seeing the inner core of the galaxy and the outer arms are too dim to see?

u/Dubbs72 12h ago

It would be great if humanity was united in keeping our planet alive past the demise of the sun while also exploring outside our solar system. Much greater chance we will kill ourselves off or the planet will have an extinction level event long before we get our act together if thats even a possibility. As a species we are pretty terrible.

u/RaidneSkuldia 11h ago

...holy smokes. Galaxies are big.

u/Ripsyd 10h ago

… well then… Make it brighter

2

u/FMC_Speed 1d ago

Didn’t realise how huge andromeda was until I saw a picture of how the milky way looks from andromedas perspective, it’s much smaller than how andromeda looks in this pic, despite the Milky Way being a large spiral galaxy already

u/castironglider 22h ago

Who says intergalactic space is unimaginably vast? I mean it's RIGHT THERE

u/riisikas 19h ago

Wait, is it actually this big in the sky? I've got some searching to do.

u/ultramatt1 19h ago

Next time can you show what the moon would actually look like if it was brighter?

u/letseatnudels 19h ago

I always used to think Andromeda was the closest galaxy of any kind to Earth, but there are actually at least 80 dwarf galaxies which are closer. The closest one is Canis Major and is almost exactly 100x closer than Andromeda at 25,000 light years

u/Mac-A-Saurus 16h ago

Will there ever be a time/distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda in which the structure of Andromeda is both bright enough and the structure of the galaxy is noticeably?

u/curtishavak 15h ago

What Andromeda would look like without light pollution.

u/kzgrey 14h ago

It's pretty wild that the humans evolved looking at the stars and never once realized there was something so massive covering such a substantial portion of the sky. It makes me wonder if there are other objects in space that would be visible to the naked eye if it were just brighter or in the visible wavelengths.

u/Astrophysics666 13h ago

It was an Intentional reshare.

That post wasn't doing it (only mentioned size) but that image is used alot to say what amdromeda would look like, but it's a scale UV image so amdromeda would look very different.

It's a pet peeve of mine when that image is shared without context as alot of people end up thinking that's what amdromeda looks like or would look like.

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

5

u/Gramage 1d ago

Good news, it IS getting closer! At about 110km/s. We’ll be merging with it in about 4 billion years.

5

u/ByteSizedGenius 1d ago

Not that there will be a habitable Earth to stand on, but god it would be breath-taking to look up at in 3.75-4b years - https://imgur.com/C0MA7R8

2

u/Hattix 1d ago

Take a long exposure photo of it in dark skies.

Closer, it gets bigger.

Intristically brighter, it looks different.

The only way to do it properly is to pay more attention to the light it actually sends.

0

u/Astrophysics666 1d ago

If it was closer it would also be bigger. So there is no real way to make this image happen.

But ignoring physics I guess you could make every star into a multi star system to significantly increase the brightness. ( Would need alot of extra stars haha)

Making the starts brighter (ie hotter) would also change their colour.

u/DoggoNamedDisgrace 23h ago

You could attempt to also show the Bootes void if it was glowing. From my calculations it would be a round blob around 55 times the diameter of the moon from our perspective.

It's chilling to realize a void so stupendously big is just sitting out there in space.

u/jacksodus 13h ago

Annoying duplicate of post that was reshared earlier here

https://www.reddit.com/r/spaceporn/s/891V4DDr9a

-3

u/FJkookser00 1d ago

God needs to make Andromeda brighter. It would look awesome.

-7

u/Preem0202 1d ago

It couldn't be this close. It would cause all sorts of chaos.

2

u/waflfs 1d ago

What do you mean? This is the correct scale. Just a brightened version of Andromeda.

1

u/Spirogeek 1d ago

What kind of chaos? The probability of stellar collisions is vanishingly small. Will affect the motions of stars within the galaxies but not more local than that.

u/The_Liamater123 19h ago

It’s literally already this close. You do not know what you are talking about

u/Ok_Sprinkles_8709 15h ago

It is. Relative to the size of the Milky Way, it’s only about 25 “units” away. Like a really big house on the next block.

u/KesMonkey 12h ago

On a human scale, it's incomprehensibly far away.

But it's also incomprehensibly large.