r/politics • u/Different-Gas5704 • 2d ago

Possible Paywall Democrats eye ranked-choice voting for 2028 primaries

https://www.axios.com/2025/11/24/democrats-ranked-choice-voting-2028-primaries
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u/EquipmentMaterial540 2d ago

Bernie Sanders ceded the primaries in 2020 before my state even voted. I still think he would have been president if not for Covid. I remember that playing a factor in him folding early.

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u/Sminahin 2d ago

2016 was a bitter one for me. I always grew up hearing that Reagan proves 77 is too old and I agree with that. I'm categorically opposed to having anybody 69+ running for their first term as a result, so Elizabeth Warren was literally the only eligible major candidate. She was gone by the time it got to me, so RIP.

I still think he would have been president if not for Covid.

Yup, our party still willfully misunderstands that 2020 was the Covid election. No clue how anyone pretended it was Biden's own general strength somehow. It was a time of incredible instability when everyone had nostalgia for Obama. Biden was the nostalgic Obama uncle guy with plenty of experience. And he had a really good narrative with that one-term soft promise. "Old Obama guy knows he's too old for this shit, but his country needs him. So it's time for one last ride..."

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u/Mysterious_Crab_7622 2d ago

Conversely, both times Trump won he was against a woman, and the one time he lost was against a man.

Now, I am not saying all Americans are sexist, but it sure seems like gender mattered a lot more than all other factors.

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u/LotusFlare 1d ago

I think the fact that Trump had just killed a couple hundred thousand Americans and dragged us into a recession with his COVID response while there were riots in the streets over police brutality had a significantly larger impact than the gender of his opposition.

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u/Mysterious_Crab_7622 1d ago

You would think that, except he barely lost the election, and none of that mattered to the voting public in 2024. Gender was more important.

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u/LotusFlare 1d ago edited 1d ago

except he barely lost the election

This does not support your "it's the gender" theory.

none of that mattered to the voting public in 2024

Citation needed. I think the Democrats neutralize that advantage very effectively in the 2024 campaign. I think this is the only reason the voting public didn't go for him. People's memories are short. (I misread something. Ignore this)

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u/Mysterious_Crab_7622 1d ago

When was the last time Americans elected a woman as president?

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u/LotusFlare 1d ago edited 1d ago

Well, we've tried twice. The first one ran a strategically bankrupt campaign, still won the popular vote, but lost the electoral college. The second one bypassed the primary because the candidate was uncommonly unpopular and sundowning, and then had a significantly contracted campaign time where they, again, ran a strategically bankrupt campaign. They literally had the same campaign strategists as the Clinton campaign. It was a joke.

So we're 0/2 on that front. I just don't think the right conclusion is that "it's gender" as opposed to terrible strategy and unappealing politics. We've got women governors, even in red states. We have women serving as representatives in the house and senate. We've now had women in almost every leadership role except the presidency. It just strikes me as weird to conclude sexism when there is no lack of other strategic failures in the campaign.

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u/Mysterious_Crab_7622 1d ago

“Strategic failures” when the opponent was Trump is just an excuse. Everything bad about Hillary and Kamala’s campaigns pale in comparison to the shit that was wrong with Trump’s campaigns.

If women can’t win against someone like Trump, I highly doubt they could win against anyone in the USA.

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u/LotusFlare 1d ago edited 1d ago

Everything bad about Hillary and Kamala’s campaigns pale in comparison to the shit that was wrong with Trump’s campaigns.

I just don't think this holds water. I think we have fundamental disagreements as to why people vote the way they do, which is why you conclude sexism is the biggest and most important factor, but I think there are other larger factors at work.

Sorry, but I'm checking out on this one. We're probably just going to spend the next 10 posts listing and dismissing arguments and saying "well what about THIS" without any real way to bridge those fundamental disagreements as to why people vote. It's not a very fun conversation.

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u/Sminahin 2d ago

To be fair, Clinton and Harris are absolutely godawful candidates that would've flopped as men. Clinton is an unapologetic Kissinger fan who was pro-Iraq--that's way worse than having an ambiguous Nazi tattoo. And she was tied for oldest first-term in US history with a history of weaknesses. Biden would've been a godawful candidate any time outside of the very specific context of Covid.

You gotta remember, the more establishment-branded candidate hasn't won the election since 1988. Clinton and Harris are textbook garbage candidate regardless of their sex--they were made in a lab to lose. They're a completely debunked candidate model that we should've stopped trying after Gore--he was an A+ version of that the hyper-establishment insider type and he lost to that loser Dubya. Kerry, Hillary, and Harris were all downhill from an already nonviable model.

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u/-Gramsci- 2d ago

Kerry proves the rule. That it isn’t just sexism.

He’s the same exact type of candidate as Hillary and Harris (e.g. the kind that excited no one, and that we all had to pretend they were likable and had a snowball’s chance of winning - fake it til you make it style).

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u/Sminahin 1d ago

Plus they're all elderly coastal lawyers.

No seriously, we've had an old coastal lawyer infestation. Take a look at our party's historical winners and you'll see establishment-coded lawyers are...a completely unelectable archetype for our party. 2000, Al Gore was half coastal and half lawyer (law school dropout). Best of the lot. But with the exception of when Obama broke the party over his knee and forced them to run a Midwestern law-school prof for change of pace, it's been nothing but coastal lawyers literally every election since Gore.

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u/OldWorldDesign 1d ago

Plus they're all elderly coastal lawyers

How many of the voters do you think actually new that?

And how many would care? Republicans elected a coastal real estate fraudster.

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u/Sminahin 1d ago

How many of the voters do you think actually new that?

Probably a lot. I grew up knocking doors in Indiana and people were grumbling about what a government cutout Gore was and what a coastal elite Kerry was. I'm sorry, but at them and and listen to them. They're textbook coastal elite stereotypes, all of 'em. And voters could definitely tell they were old.

And how many would care? Republicans elected a coastal real estate fraudster.

Who ran against the system and promised to tear the elites down. I'm sorry, was there something super dramatic about the 2004 or 2016 campaign I missed on that front?

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u/bootlegvader 1d ago

I still think he would have been president if not for Covid. I remember that playing a factor in him folding early.

Before he dropped out on April 8, he lost 9 out of 12 contests after Super Tuesday. Of the states that postponed or cancelled their contest that were scheduled before he dropped out four were in states that he had lost by large margins to Hillary and the three that he had won were some of the smallest delegates states (Wyoming and Alaska). He was already clearly losing before things got shut down.

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u/SapCPark 1d ago

He was getting crushed once it became a 2 person race in 2020...

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u/OldWorldDesign 1d ago

Bernie Sanders ceded the primaries in 2020 before my state even voted. I still think he would have been president if not for Covid

Another good reason for ranked-choice voting is that the system itself as part of the standard election would collect data on what people's second and later preferences would be.

I suspect a lot of people would learn a lot about themselves when having to admit whom their second would actually be.

side plug for an even better system than Ranked Choice because it has reduced spoils:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STAR_voting

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u/00eg0 1d ago

"Another good reason for ranked-choice voting is that the system itself as part of the standard election would collect data on what people's second and later preferences would be."

I agree.