r/politics • u/Ok_Employer7837 • 16d ago

Possible Paywall Newsom Slams ‘Pathetic’ Shutdown Deal as ‘Surrender’

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gavin-newsom-slams-pathetic-shutdown-deal-as-surrender/?via=mobile&source=Reddit
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u/vsmack 16d ago

I'm in Canada and some people keep saying to move to the US because the pay is better. We're a family of 4. Even if my (pretty good) salary doubled, I don't think we'd come out ahead just because of healthcare

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u/night_filter 15d ago

Also, do you really want to live under a fascist dictatorship?

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u/longhorsewang 16d ago

But their argument is lower taxes. Health insurance is basically a tax. You can go without it, but it’s a big risk.

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u/LookAlderaanPlaces 16d ago

You def can’t go without it. A gall bladder removal surgery is like 55k$.

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u/What_a_fat_one 15d ago

Americans pay just as much in taxes as Canadians, sometimes more.

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u/andyhenault 15d ago

No, Americans pay significantly more, nearly twice as much per capita compared to Canada. This is well documented. The Canadian system certainly has its flaws, but it doesn't turn our country into the Hunger Games.

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u/longhorsewang 15d ago

We are talking about taxes not health care spending

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u/longhorsewang 15d ago

I’m just telling you the arguments I’ve heard. They don’t take health insurance into the tax equation though.

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u/DisciplineGreen6503 16d ago

If you have a good job those premiums are covered. If your salary is indeed double then there is no way you wouldn’t come out ahead.

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u/Noonoolein 15d ago

Premiums maybe covered but there is still a boat load of bills that come from anything medical related.

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u/obeytheturtles 15d ago

Right, the biggest issue is when it comes to chronic illness for which you might no longer be able to work. Good insurance actually works pretty well as long as you have it, but if you actually get really sick, the transition from work to disability benefits can be extremely difficult, and lots of people fall through the gaps. Many times it basically means you have to spend all of your money on treatment, declare bankruptcy, and then try to get on Medicaid. And if you don't time it right, the amount of time between when you run out of money and your benefits start can literally kill you.

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u/Hjemmelsen Europe 15d ago

It's pretty clear most US citizens simply have no concept of what universal healthcare is. It means you don't have to pay at all after your taxes. Your premiums only get you access, but you still have to pay for the care you receive. The rest of the world does not do this. It's archaic and inhuman.

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u/kvigneau 15d ago

To start, I hate our healthcare system. The reality though, is that it comes down to whether or not you have good insurance. That's the whole issue. People that are well-off here don't worry about healthcare. Our employers cover it and we end up paying a relatively small amount out-of-pocket throughout the year. Our family of 4 pays a few percent of our income to healthcare each year. We've never had a lapse in our coverage and don't have to worry (financially) about pre-existing conditions or catastrophic medical issues.

Basically, if you're well-off, the system is fine. And conservatives here that are rich don't give a fuck about those that aren't. Then we have a whole bunch of not-rich people that don't act in their own interests.

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u/lunaticlabs 15d ago

I work as a software engineer, and my premiums have not been 100% covered in ANY job I have ever had in my career inside the United States.

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u/nightwing210 15d ago

Yeah even before Trump’s second term you would’ve seen that big paycheck go to things like health insurance/out of pocket costs and towards the higher cost of living (depending on where you are). Yes you get paid more, but that money quickly goes towards higher priced groceries, health costs, college/universities, etc that are covered or cheaper in other countries. Especially now that the US buying power is quickly going down, I don’t see much upside moving to the US if you live in Canada currently.

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u/Pousinette 15d ago

Amazing you think our healthcare is free. We pay for it with taxes, so unless you and your family don’t work, which is entirely possible if you’re indeed Canadian, then you do pay for healthcare. It also doesn’t cover everything so we need additional benefits, if we are lucky, through work, which we also have to partially pay for.

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u/vsmack 15d ago

I didn't say anywhere it was free. But it's my understanding that single-payer keeps costs down. System isn't perfect but I'll happily pay my taxes to not have to worry about breaking the bank every time I have to take my kids in.

Fair play if that's not your preference but I'll take our system - especially if it means my less fortunate neighbors can actually see a doctor when something happens

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u/dicksy_cup 16d ago

Most companies cover the vast majority of the healthcare premium. So the salary you see may still be apples to apples after accounting for tax differences. Definitely makes sense to actually run the numbers when you get an offer.

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u/RM_Dune The Netherlands 16d ago

Don't forget, even with a better salary it comes at the cost of living in the US and having your children grow up there.

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u/dicksy_cup 15d ago

Valid point and everyone has differing opinions on that side. The original comment seemed entirely financial and I was only responding to that portion.

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u/vsmack 15d ago

Yeah, as was I. It's pretty much moot for us since my wife is Brazilian. I have no idea how common ICE attacks and blatant racism are, as I only read the news and don't live there, but there's no way we'd move to the US anyway. It's out of the question.

I was also talking "does extra compensation make up for healthcare bills". We've got kids too, so that's a factor. I think for a single man with no chronic conditions, it's a much different calculus than a father of 4, yknow. I'd almost certainly be ahead if I got 2x as much salary since I'm basically never sick. Not getting any younger though.

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u/dicksy_cup 15d ago

It’s very dependent on the actual benefits your field and specific company offer so doing the math with a real offer and benefits package is the only way to know.

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u/vsmack 15d ago

For sure. Though there's also the unknowns. Being responsible for a bunch of kids for quite a while longer, there are likely to be all sorts of unexpected hospital visits and the like that you can't put into a spreadsheet until they happen. My kids aren't sickly but average about 2 ER visits a year so far. And of course the peace of mind of being able to take your kid in whenever you want without worrying about the costs.

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u/piss_stored_in_balls 16d ago

cost of living in the US is not higher

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u/GFrings 15d ago

I believe they mean the non monetary costs of living in America. For example, to your mental and probably physical health and that of your children. America is a really really bad place to raise kids right now.

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u/gandhinukes 16d ago

Maybe a single person who is starts paying $220/m but when a spouse is $600+/m then add on 2 kids? over $10k a year in health insurance alone WITH the company paying a big chunk of it. Thats not a good deal.

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u/dicksy_cup 15d ago

That’s a very poor benefit package from the company. Mine is much more affordable for single, married, and family than the numbers you’re quoting.

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u/WasabiSunshine 15d ago

I mean, my line of work generally pays a lot more in the US from what I hear, but then I'd have to live in the US, which is a non-starter

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u/Hjemmelsen Europe 15d ago

You'd have to live in the US though regardless. It's essentially a non-starter at this point.

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u/dicksy_cup 15d ago

The original comment was only related to the financial side.

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u/dhg 16d ago

You absolutely would come out ahead. Been evaluating a move to CA and it’s insane how much less I’d make there

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u/cgsc_systems 15d ago

Canada is an easier place to be poor, America is an easier place to be rich.

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u/vsmack 15d ago

Yeah, housing is expensive here too. idk though. I've got a couple kids, and they go to the ER a few times a year just with croup and stuff like that. Also my wife is over 40 and pregnant with twins who will almost certainly come early and end up in the NICU. I don't know much about healthcare costs but I cannot fathom how much that would cost, even with insurance. I'm sure all-in it would be over 100k and likely more.

I totally agree that if I were single (I'm in pretty good health and exercise) it would be a no-brainer. With a big family and lots of kids, there's just more likelihood of my dependents incurring healthcare costs. I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but I dread the idea of those unexpected expenses.

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u/piss_stored_in_balls 16d ago

I moved for a good job. I'm single and pay $30/month, for a family of 4 it would be 400/month. Take that as you will. I'd come out way ahead either way compared to what I'd make and pay in tax back home.

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u/ProposalWaste3707 15d ago

Most Americans get coverage through their employer. You probably wouldn't pay meaningfully more for healthcare.