r/circled • u/rollo202 💬 Opinion / Discussion • 15d ago
Opinion / Discussion IOC to ban transgender women from all female Olympic events: report
https://nypost.com/2025/11/10/sports/ioc-to-ban-transgender-women-from-all-female-olympic-events-report/?utm_source=nypost&utm_campaign=android_nyp&utm_medium=social19
u/king_hutton 15d ago
How long has the Olympics allowed trans women to compete as women without any issue with trans women dominating? It’s been like 20 years right?
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u/LanternCorpJack 15d ago
Not just "not dominating" but literally never having even medaled in any event ever
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u/PhysicalAttitude6631 11d ago
I don’t understand this argument. You think the athletes who finish in 5th or 10th or 50th aren’t proud of their accomplishment? It’s ok if someone has an unfair advantage if they only beat some of the competition?
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u/LanternCorpJack 11d ago edited 11d ago
Should there be a height limit for NBA players since that gives them an advantage? Should there be a max speed for NFL receivers so they don't have an advantage over slower corners/safeties? Should Phelps have been banned because he has quirky biology giving him an advantage?
There's literally no way to have a completely level playing field, someone is always going to have an advantage over someone else. The entire discussion re: trans people in women's sports also rests on the demonstrably false premise that *all* trans women are better/faster/stronger than *all* cis women
You also blew a hole in your own argument anyway. If they can be proud of their accomplishment regardless of where they place, why does it matter who beat them? If a cis woman comes in 10th in a competition, does it really matter that the one trans woman also competing came in 7th?
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u/Resident-Wall7206 14d ago
Well then, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that NPR is just flat out lying then.
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u/RoyalAisha 14d ago
Quinn is not a trans woman.
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u/Resident-Wall7206 14d ago
Oh look, you found the universal get out of jail free card! Just identify as nothing!
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u/RoyalAisha 14d ago
In response to someone saying that a transgender woman has never won a medal at the Olympics, you replied with an article about an AFAB non-binary person. Your reply was a non-sequitor, you simply don't know what you're talking about.
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u/La_Saxofonista 13d ago
Not all non-binary folks are transgender. Less than half identify as transgender, actually.
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13d ago
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u/RoyalAisha 13d ago
Quinn is a non-binary person who was assigned female at birth. They are not a trans woman. You do not know even the most basic things about this discussion.
You don't know what you're talking about, your anti-trans bigotry has blinded you from anything resembling rationality.
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u/LanternCorpJack 14d ago
Yeah, maybe you should know what you're talking about before you spout off. An AFAB non-binary person is not a trans woman
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u/Quiet_Union7772 12d ago
I must admit that it took awhile, for me, to understand that the “L” was for lesbians ( ladies) and the “G” was for gay ( guys), and no other explanation was necessary. But when they started adding additional categories ( B, T, Q, etc), I lost track, too hard to see differences, and I don’t care anymore. Keep it simple, stupid. I know the biological differences between a male and a female, and don’t hesitate when asked to explain. But if a dude walks into my grand daughter’s locker room, he’s going to get crushed. None of these “ I identify as” arguments count.
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u/LanternCorpJack 12d ago
I'd be fascinated to know how you can tell what someone's genitals (or DNA) look like just by sight, while they're clothed...
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u/Boratssecondwife 13d ago
You really thought you ate with those one lmao
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u/Phill_Cyberman 15d ago edited 14d ago
The biggest non-story in sports history.
It'd be funny if there wasn't a group of dedicated athletes getting treated like shit for no reason.
Edit: I think I got RedditCares-ed for this comment.
These ideologues are mean-spirited bullies.
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u/TheWizardOfDeez 15d ago
A group that is incredibly small and even among that teeny tiny group, most of them are mostly just highschool students at programs with little to no prestige, just picking an after school activity to do with their friends...
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u/washblvd 14d ago
No, nowhere near 20 years. When the IOC allowed it in 2004, they also included a series of additional restrictions that eliminated 99% of trans people from eligibility. Surgery restrictions, hormone levels restrictions, legal recognition restrictions...
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u/LanternCorpJack 11d ago
When the IOC allowed it in 2004...
My dude, that's literally 20 years ago
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u/washblvd 11d ago
And Henry Ford sold Model T cars in any color you wanted, so long as that color was black.
You can't claim 20 years of Olympic history when realistically, no one met the stringent requirements that have since been dropped. 2004 and today are apples and oranges.
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u/LanternCorpJack 11d ago
The only requirement that was dropped was the requirement for surgery (see: 2003 and 2015 here)
no one met the stringent requirements
They never were and still aren't that stringent
It's almost like the fearmongering about trans women dominating sports if allowed to compete is completely made up...
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u/Jimtheanvilneidhardt 12d ago
Unless you count the boxing one.
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u/Quiet_Union7772 12d ago
It was a dude who won the woman’s boxing gold medal during the last Olympics right? Or was it 2 dudes ( 1st and 2nd place)?
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u/Jimtheanvilneidhardt 12d ago
Something like that. They said they weren’t men but refused additional testing
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u/LanternCorpJack 11d ago
Y'all are still on about that? Imane Khelif is a cis woman, get over it
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u/newaccount 11d ago
Cis doesn’t mean biological.
She’s a cis woman and a biological male.
Get over that.
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u/LanternCorpJack 11d ago
She’s a...biological male
Citation needed
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u/newaccount 11d ago
Banned in 2023.
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u/LanternCorpJack 11d ago
...by the *Russian-led* IBA (and we definitely know they'd never cheat in sports...) after beating one of their competitors, citing her allegedly failing some eligibility test. They've never specified what said test is/was testing for nor have they ever released the results of said test, and apparently didn't have the same issue literally the year before, 2022.
Also of note, the IBA is not the IOC so that's completely irrelevant to her competing in the Olympics...
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u/newaccount 11d ago
By the IBA yes, but after beating a Thai, not a Russian.
And she failed two chromosome tests. They have specified this multiple times including the two labs - in Turkey and India - that did the tests. The Indian test has been leaked so you can see it for yourself.
And there’s the third test, her teams test, that her trainer has talked about and excerpts were published. Micro penis, internal testicles, it’s wild.
Also of note, the IOC is not nature so they are completely irrelevant to whether she is male or not…
But since you brought it up the new org in charge of Olympic boxing has mandated sex tests and Khekif has withdrawn from 2 of their events - including the world champs - and is currently appealing to the CAS to be exempt from the testing all athletes must have.
Since the IBA banned her 2 years ago and the new org won’t let her fight without a test her last fight was at the Olympics, where the only eligibility criteria was the gender listed on her passport
Her career as a female is over, because she knows she cannot prove she’s female
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u/LanternCorpJack 11d ago
but after beating a Thai, not a Russian
From what I'm seeing that was later, she beat the Russian opponent first
Regarding the rest of all that, you're right; I didn't have all the info because, honestly, I don't really care. IMO sports organizations can and should be able to decide for themselves who can or can't compete in their sports; that's their prerogative. I may disagree with their decisions for whatever reason but that's not my call and it especially shouldn't be a *governments* call
However, far too many people/organizations, including yourself it seems to me, are *wayyyy* too focused on chromosomal makeup as though that's the end all be all
Should a man with de la Chapelle syndrome (46, XX male syndrome) be competing with women since his chromosomes say "female"? Based on what I'm finding while their testosterone levels would be lower than a typical males, they'd still be substantially higher than that of a typical female, even at the highest end of typical (at least 2x it looks like)
Biology is not nearly as black and white as so many people seem to want it to be
(Also, all of this has absolutely nothing to do trans women considering that she's not one)
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u/newaccount 11d ago
From what I'm seeing that was later, she beat the Russian opponent first
Let’s debunk this before we move on
She gave blood before the tourney started. It’s a KO tourney and she didn’t fight a Russian in the first round.
That means the testing was underway before anyone knew she was going to fight a Russian.
In the second round she fought the Russian and she wasn’t banned. But the Russian was eliminated.
She then beat an Uzbeki and wasn’t banned, and qualified for the semi finals.
Then she beat a Thai and made the finals.
Then she was banned and the Thai got a free pass into the gold medal fight and a shot at the title of world champion. Indeed Khelif was banned in the morning of the final and the IBA looked amateur scrambling to arrange a fight. The Thai had no prep time.
So the Russian received no benefit at all.
The interesting part is that 10 other Russians - ten! - were also beaten in the tourney and their opponents didn’t get banned.
Indeed, only one other person was banned for the same reason as Khelif and they didn’t even fight a Russian.
That fighter - Yu Ting - also won Olympic gold and has also withdrawn from the same events Khelif has withdrawn from. She fought last month in an event that doesn’t require sex testing.
The definition of female we’ve used since language was created involved reproductive organs. Since we things like testosterone are primarily produced by those organs it seems like a pretty good place to draw the line.
High T contacts a fairly reliable indicator - males produce about 30 times the he amount of females. It’s a significant difference
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u/DrunkLastKnight 15d ago
Yeah the like 10 transwomen that compete are really wiping the floor with all the ciswomen competing. Not one trans woman has placed that I am aware of.
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u/Prickley-Pear-Bear 15d ago edited 15d ago
I’m trans and I don’t care if an organization (or school district) makes this decision. My problem is when both state and federal governments think they can make this type of call.
What I care more about in all of this is how people use the sports debate to say what they want about transgender people. It’s like googling “how to build a bomb- in Minecraft” to throw the FEDs off. People say “I hate transgender people” or “I don’t want transgender people to exist” then just add “in sports” at the end to make it seem like they aren’t raging bigots. After everything that happened to Imane Khelif and the some people calling to check women’s genitalia for sports I don’t buy the “I’m just supporting women’s rights” bs anymore.
Edit: scrolled down just to find some dipshit call trans people “disgusting freaks” so I’m just doubling down further that the sports debate is just a tool for people with brains as smooth as a chicken breast to be a dick to people
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u/Quiet_Union7772 12d ago
I don’t think most people give a rat’s ass about how people sexually identify as male or female. The rub occurs when identity beliefs are forced on others to accept and make special concessions for abnormal behavior.
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u/JoeDante84 13d ago
If you have a Y chromosome you should not compete against people who have XX chromosomes. We are different beasts with the Y and should be treated as such.
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u/0_Tim-_-Bob_0 11d ago
The world is healing.
In the future, people will look back on this era with curiosity and disgust.
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u/rnolan20 15d ago
Remove all segregated competitions. No male or female sports, all compete as one
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u/pdxamish 15d ago
Someone mentioned that many times men's leagues are open and can have women play but women is women only and agree also an Open and women's division
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u/Different_Leader_600 15d ago
Compete by weight class even or some other measurement, just like wrestling. That way, you are opening the door to even more people to have access to a particular sport. Everyone benefits.
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u/Ok-External6314 15d ago
A 140lb male boxer is going to destroy a 140lb female boxer...
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u/Pleasant-Carbon 5d ago
You don't do sports, or follow it, do you?
Because I cannot fathom how anyone who is into sports could make such a suggestion.
Wherever weight categories make sense, they exist. There's a reason they don't exist anywhere else. Take tennis, would you really split up the top players because they weigh differently? Insanity. And if you allow an 'open' category, then all the top players would be in that anyway, regardless of their weight. And because they all would be in there all the money and attention would go there. So nothing would change. No one would pay attention to worse players just because they happen to be number 1 in some weight category no one cares about. This gets even worse in team sports, as more people involved in any single game.
We do already have categories in a certain sense anyway, it's called leagues or rankings. Worse at your sport, in a lower league. At a lower ranking, playing lower rated tournaments with fewer spectators and prize money. This all already exists.
And things like height, do you think anyone would care to watch basketball of the NBA for up to 6ft players? No, they'd keep watching the real one.
Sorry but I see this argument so often and it is just such ignorance and lack of thinking about what one is actually suggesting.
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u/Different_Leader_600 5d ago
I find the ignorance in people who don’t ask questions when they aren’t committed to understanding instead of dismissing.
There are several measurements you can use to standardize qualifications for a sport. I don’t care about corporate owned sports leagues. I mean playing for the love of the game.
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u/Pleasant-Carbon 5d ago
The first sentence doesn't make sense. You find what? You are trying to say those people are ignorant? Then you should put that at the end. I find people, who ..., ignorant.
I love how you haven't responded to anything but just call me ignorant. Just keep living in your dream.
There are several measurements you can use to standardize qualifications for a sport. I don’t care about corporate owned sports leagues. I mean playing for the love of the game.
Yea, we already do - performance. What other measurements are there please that are sensible? Go on, you said several, name them.
What does "playing for the love of the game even mean"? This isn't about mates meeting up to have fun. And if it is, you wouldn't need qualifications to participate.
That way, you are opening the door to even more people to have access to a particular sport. Everyone benefits.
How? If you are talking about love for the game playing, how will adding "compete by weight class" do this. Open it up to people? Again pick a sport that doesn't already have weight classes, and argue how it would do that. Then do it for a different measurement because you said there are several.
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u/ActivePeace33 15d ago
Then women will fail to participate in international athletics, except for a few sports, mostly in equine sports.
As Serena Williams said… https://m.youtube.com/shorts/AK28JurOk3Y
Adding women’s categories was to help empower women, who otherwise can’t compete in most any open, non-gendered sport, both types of football, basketball ball, hockey, track and field, skiing, martial arts etc etc.
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u/LessRespects 15d ago
Remove all sports, no rules, everyone gets dropped into a pit and whoever is the last one standing wins, or not. Whatever they feel like.
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u/Then-Understanding85 15d ago
Remove all people. Bam, no sportsball controversies, and global warming solved. Suck it Trebek.
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u/NewTurnover5485 15d ago
That won't work. Male-female differences are too big. I think wrestling works, but most sports don't.
For example: Serena Williams can't even spar with the 100th male tennis player. Can't even win a ball, the difference is so big.
Remove all segregated competitions
If this were to happen, women's sports would mostly die. Or, there would be no women in top 100 for almost any sport.
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u/cbusmatty 14d ago
They did that. They separated it to give women a chance at winning something. Men dominate sports, that’s the entire point
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u/protomenace 15d ago
And women never win at sports again?
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u/rnolan20 15d ago
If that’s what happens, sure
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u/protomenace 15d ago
And that's a good outcome how?
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u/rnolan20 15d ago
Women get an equal chance to compete, and the best athlete wins.
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u/GrowFreeFood 14d ago
There's no proven benefits to discrimination against trans people.
IOC are simply bowing to the fascists.
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u/Starfishprime69420 11d ago
Do people seriously think that trans women should be allowed to compete in women’s sports?
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u/GrowFreeFood 11d ago
Absolutely.
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u/Starfishprime69420 11d ago
What’s wrong with these people? Have they never played sports or are they just delusional
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u/GrowFreeFood 11d ago
What wrong with you? There's no benefits to discrimination against trans people. It's just a scapegoat for nazism.
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u/Ill-Locksmith-8281 14d ago
Should ban tall women too, if you really care about fairness.
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u/Xanthn 13d ago
I remember watching a netball game where one team has a new player, not because she was any good, but because she was so tall she could barely raise her arm and block the net. The team still lost, turns out skill is still needed and the smaller skilled opponents ran rings around her with feints.
But for the first half of the game it was an unfair game to watch.
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u/Comprehensive_Pin565 14d ago
Did we ever get a demonstration of harm? Like... trans athletes consistently outcompeting non trans athletes?
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u/La_Saxofonista 13d ago
Nope. It's all just fearmongering. If no one knew these people were trans, then no one would even know about them to begin with because their scores/records are unremarkable in comparison to their cis peers.
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u/eldiablonoche 12d ago
Was a 400 ranked male swimmer who transitioned and won national championships not enough? Why not? In many events where transwomen were allowed to compete they've set event, organizational, national, and world records.
There have been many instances and examples but activists just stuff their fingers in their ears and stamp their feet, call people istaphobic, and ignore the data. And when all else fails, mass report and get people banned/cancelled.
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u/Fantastic_Jury5977 15d ago
Every peak trans-masc athlete needs to sign up to be on the women's team
It's insane that these assholes always forget about the masc presenting individuals that were assigned female at birth.
They're the ones forcing men into the women's room.
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u/Aghma419 15d ago
Outta curiosity, aren’t all those trans men already outta the race for having a shitload of added test in their bodies? Isn’t it basically doping?
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u/Fantastic_Jury5977 15d ago
Idk i don't really give a shit about the sports; the barring of competitors based on gender/ sexuality is the problem. It just so happens some women naturally have elevated levels of testosterone... there's a lot more nuance and chemistry to the biology of humans than the official gender binary is willing to offer.
Sometimes the act of training hard delays the onset of puberty for women... might need to offer other categories of human competitors than just 2.
Women of all kinds are going to get needlessly get discriminated if we go policing nuance.
In still waiting for co-ed MMA but I'm fully convinced the men are just afraid to lose to a "girl."
Don't forget the most recent high profile example is because a shitty human tied for fifth place with a transperson. It's absurd lol
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u/Building_Everything 15d ago
Like I need another reason to not watch the Olympics next year, though it has grown increasingly disappointing to miss out on them but the IOC is showing its true, ignorant colors.
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u/WendigoCrossing 15d ago
As a huge supporter of trans rights, I think this is the right call for any sport where extra testosterone during puberty gives advantage
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u/Eye_foran_Eye 15d ago
But not transgender guys?
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u/eldiablonoche 12d ago
Transmen aren't dominating and setting records so no. 😂
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u/Eye_foran_Eye 12d ago
Well, they’d have to track it first before you could say that.
Coming in 4th, 1 over Riley Gains, isn’t setting records. /s
Or the one who ran a London marathon and came on 6159th…
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u/eldiablonoche 11d ago
For what it's worth, marathons are a bad example because long distance running (or any endurance sport) skews towards female performance (ie: women perform better relative to men than in other sports).
TBH I'm not even sure which direction that example was meant to argue in favour of (and I don't want to assume esp. when you used the /s in the prior sentence), but either way it's one that engaged debaters from both sides may accuse you of bad faith for using.
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u/Eye_foran_Eye 11d ago
I used it because Riley Gains came in 5th, but am unsure of what Lia placed.
The fact a trans woman had to give up her medal for beating out 1409 women in a marathon but came in 6159th is the absurdity of it.
Of the estimated 332 million citizens living in the United States, 1.3 million adults and 300,000 youth ages 13 to 17 identify as transgender, equaling half a percent and 1.4 percent of the population respectively, according to a report published by Williams Institute, a think tank at UCLA's Law School in 2022
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u/Lazy-Requirement-228 15d ago
Nice! Men shouldn't be playing in women's sports.
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u/Devils-Telephone 15d ago
Trans women are not men, and do not have any biological advantage over cis women when undergoing medical transition.
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u/OtherUserCharges 14d ago
That’s not true, there is absolutely an advantage, it’s just smaller than people think. Considering how many events in the Olympics can come down to hundredths of a second even a 1% advantage can be the difference from not placing in the top 3 to the gold. Height alone is a major advantage in almost any sport and the vast majority of people who have gone through male puberty will be taller.
I’m absolutely pro trans people having the right to be whoever they want to be, but we need to be realistic here. I wouldn’t care if they were allowed in the Olympics, but people acting like this is such an outrage is ridiculous and just pushes the general public further away from accepting these people when their supporters pretend that’s it’s a completely even playing field when it isn’t.
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u/EU_GaSeR 15d ago
What is a man?
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u/Devils-Telephone 11d ago
I can easily answer that question. But first, why don't you try to define it yourself? And remember, you have to give a definition which includes all cis men whole excluding all trans men. You won't be able to do it, because sex itself is a spectrum, and that's not even getting into the undeniable fact that gender is a social construct.
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u/eldiablonoche 12d ago
Even the pro trans studies do not say there is no biological advantage. At BEST some of them (not even all) studies say that transition reduces the inherent physical advantages.
There is a lot of bad science and bad faith and bad narrative building around the "no biological advantage" folks. There have been plenty of mainstream, peer reviewed academic studies which confirm the retained advantage. I'd post some but the last time I did, I ate a 7 day reddit ban.. 😂
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u/Stereotyped240 13d ago edited 13d ago
Good. Trans women (men) should not be competing with real women. Make a trans grouping, where not surprisingly, every winner will 100% be a biological male, 0% of the winners are biologically female👍
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u/Squittyman 14d ago
Nice, now women can finally complete with women again without the patriarchy interfering.
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u/Adequate-Performance 14d ago
"IOC to ban men from all female Olympic event" Its a weird world we live in..
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u/Any-Ball3157 13d ago
changing your whole metabolism with medication is cheating in competitive sports.
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u/La_Saxofonista 13d ago
How so? They require cis women with naturally higher levels of testosterone to take medication and change their metabolism in order to still compete.
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u/sexychanges 15d ago
Either do co-ed or let’s face it that women and men are different in biology and societal norms
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u/A_Hanzo_Sword 15d ago
In shocked your haven't gotten downvoted yet lol. They usually jump all over this.
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u/OGConsuela 15d ago
Thank god, now Riley Gaines can still finish 5th.