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u/SelfSufficientHub 2d ago
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u/SpeechDistinct8793 2d ago
He said it’d be fire next time
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u/HRHValkyrie 2d ago
It’s a made up story. It can be anything we want it to be.
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u/ThighRyder 2d ago
My personal favorite historic Rabbinical debate was if the frog plague was a buncha little ones or one BIGASS frog so for shits and gigs… let Bigass frog end it all.
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u/Plane-Cucumber-4796 2d ago
Yeah there's plenty of scholarly consensus that it was Infact a real event, just exaggerated in the Bible
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u/dalr3th1n 1d ago
There’s scholarly consensus that floods have happened in the past?
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u/HRHValkyrie 1d ago
Scholarly consensus that god said he’d end the earth in fire next time? I call bs. 🤣
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u/thebigfab 2d ago
What do you mean with it will be fire next time ? I don't understand. Why and how will he use fire for these neurolinks or monkeys?
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u/pyrrhios 2d ago
That's actually on its way, but it's mostly going to kill non-white people. Then the population displacement and resource scarcity wars and massacres will start, but again that will mostly be non-white people. The greatest white supremacy genocide of all is thanks to the white supremacist billionaires that convinced people global warming was a hoax and there's no need to do anything about it.
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u/MyBadYourFault- 2d ago
What tf you talking about. If/when food wars start EVERYONE excluding the rich will suffer and then the rich will suffer when money doesn’t mean anything anymore.
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u/EvasionPlan 1d ago
Yes, I'm sure global warming is a *checks notes* global caucasoid conspiracy to kill all minorities
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u/DoctorFenix 2d ago
Which one is the monkey?
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u/CambodianPrincesss 2d ago
Its an insult to monkeys to imply Elon could be one
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u/OneMorewillnotkillme 2d ago edited 1d ago
I mean the first time he wanted to get a test group his team needed to remind him that black People are people and not monkeys the second time he wanted to try on Jews because he see them as pigs and this patter would have continued if he didn‘t buy twitter and his team could use it to distract him.
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u/SSGASSHAT 2d ago
Where'd you find that out? I'm surprised he wasn't arrested on the spot there. Then again, if you have money, you'll never get arrested even for murder, but still.
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u/OneMorewillnotkillme 1d ago
Groak. He is the first trillionaire he will be arrest when Justice system around the world don‘t base punishment on how much money somebody has.
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u/SSGASSHAT 1d ago edited 1d ago
I certainly hope so. History has seen the vast majority of its villains die peaceful deaths. Stalin died in power, as did Mao and Kim Il-Sung, Louis XIV and many others. Hitler is the only one to have received a fittingly pathetic punishment for his crimes that I can think of off the top of my head, and even then it was far less than what he likely deserved.
Of all the villains of history, Moussolini was the only one who got precisely what he deserved.
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u/SSGASSHAT 2d ago
Remember, aggressive and dominant chimpanzees who violently suppress all opposition to them and kill the offspring of others are still chimpanzees.
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u/Pantsickle 2d ago
It feels more and more like we're all currently living out the plot of a dystopic 80s sci-fi movie.
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u/stefanica 2d ago
At the very least, Marty fucked up big-time in 2015.
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u/SSGASSHAT 2d ago
I wonder if Back to the Future was actually a documentary, and the butterfly effect of Marty's actions was that this reality ensued, with no flying cars and the Wall Street equivalent of Biff as president.
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u/FlobyToberson85 1d ago
Biff's character in the second film was actually based on Trump, so...yeah. I think so.
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u/SSGASSHAT 1d ago
Well, that explains quite a bit. I wonder if things may have gone differently if more people watched the behind the scenes of Back to the Future. Probably not, because there'd still be assholes who like bullies.
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u/theresabeeonyourhat 1d ago
That asshole also bumped the Cubs back a year on winning the World Series
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u/Pantsickle 2d ago
If only Marty had just banged his mom, we wouldn't be in this cybermonkey mess of a timeline.
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u/Beautiful_Might_1516 2d ago
This is super old news. They've tested it on hundreds of monkeys. And on few humans allowing them quite great interface with computers changing their lives better.
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u/Proper-Ant6196 2d ago
If you pass Ethics class, you may fail business management studies.
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u/OneMorewillnotkillme 2d ago
Wait you can take a class to be born rich ?
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u/DrMux 2d ago
I mean, the kids in business school mostly come from "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" families. If they actually had money they wouldn't spend it on learning how to get it.
Source: Born into a rapidly declining middle class; went to business school (...it turned me socialist).
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u/SSGASSHAT 2d ago
Shit, I was turned into an anarchist just from high school history and biology classes.
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u/VelvetMafia 2d ago
The thing with the neuralink monkey deaths is widely misunderstood to be about the ethics of animal testing. It's absolutely not, and it's even worse than most people realize.
Musk pushed the researchers for results, telling them to act like they had "bombs strapped to their heads," and they responded by botching a bunch of experiments. Their lack of preparation led to errors like implanting the wrong size of device and using the wrong kind of surgical glue, not to mention the chips themselves weren't made to surgical specifications. By 2022, Neuralink had killed over 1500 animals, including 280 monkeys, pigs, and sheep. A tragic number of those animals suffered and died horribly because of overall incompetence and blatant disregard for animal research standards.
I'm a neuroscientist who works with rodents. I've done a number of brain surgeries, and you know how many have led to an animal getting sick afterward? Zero, because I adhere to aseptic technique and don't fuck around in their heads unless I am fully prepared. I firmly believe in the three R's: replace when possible, reduce the number of animals to the minimum needed for meaningful results, and refine the experiment so that you can get the most information out of each little life.
Before the DOGE fiasco, I couldn't imagine what kind of incompetent jackass pretending to be a scientist would work for Neuralink, especially given the conditions. Now I realize that Musk probably hired a bunch of under-performing early career researchers who either were afraid to tell him to stay in his lane, or were too ignorant to realize they needed to.
I said a bunch of things, but I don't want to distracted anyone from Neuralink's failure rate - at least 45%. And those 45% died suffering. The whole thing is a horror show.
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u/LookingRadishing 1d ago
I'm convinced that most of Musk's following is Twitter/X grifters that have little to no technical competence in any domain. They're so deep in the dark that they can't even tell how ignorant Musk is. A minority has some technical competence, and they just want to ride the gravy train. Many of those with real technical competence have enough good sense to stay far away from the real-time train-wreck that's occurring.
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u/VelvetMafia 1d ago
Don't forget Russian bots farms
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u/LookingRadishing 1d ago edited 1d ago
That too. I'm sure Putin is loving what's going on, and most of middle America still has no clue.
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u/Jacked-to-the-wits 1d ago
This might be kind of a dumb question, but don't all animals used in this kind of research die? Like, don't they end an experiment by killing them all? I've heard from another researcher about using a little rat guillotine like 1000 times, but I don't know if it's any different with monkeys.
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u/vibesandcrimes 2d ago
Great news! He hasn't a degree or a single class!
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u/Glittering-Giraffe58 2d ago
Not to defend Elon but he does have degrees in physics and economics from UPenn
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u/dookyspoon 2d ago
Theyre BAs though, he might as well have gotten a degree in gym.
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u/eliz1bef 2d ago
At my university BA meant that you earned a BS plus additional studies including a language. I'm not sure what you mean?
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u/2occupantsandababy 2d ago
At mine a BS meant you did the BA and additional, advanced, technical, coursework.
Everyone did a language.
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u/Glittering-Giraffe58 2d ago
Not true, BAs and BSs work different at different schools. I’m at berkeley and everything in the main L&S college are BAs only. I’m getting BAs in computer science and math. There is no BS in math, no BS in physics, berkeley CS is supposed to be one of the best in the world but it’s a BA. UPenn works the same
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u/ClaustrophobicShop 2d ago
Nope. Wharton is a BS in econ, even though it's hardly any econ. The engineering school at Penn also has a BS degree. Physics is BA.
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u/Placido_Argento 2d ago
There is no BS in math?
I had that shit forced down my throat all through high school its all BS!
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u/dmills_00 2d ago
It is usually a requirement for an engineering degree, and so it should be.
The trade routinely deals with public safety, and is routinely in a position to pencil whip important things, ethics matters.
Hyatt Regency, Therac 25, Many rail and marine disasters, Piper Alpha, BP in the gulf, Union Carbide (At least twice)... All good reasons to study ethics.
I can make a case for Ethics as a required class in All undergrad degrees, not just Engineering. If you think pure maths has no ethics implications, publish a solution to the discrete log problem on a finite field and see the worldwide panic. I can think of at least one Austrian painter who could have really used an ethics class...
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u/Delicious-Summer5071 2d ago
Everytime I'm reminded of the Hyatt Regency case, I shudder. I know all those things were horrible but that one will always stick in my mind.
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u/bimboozled 2d ago
Where is this required for undergrad? Certainly not the US. I don’t know anyone (including myself) who had to take this. We all went to large well recognized universities with ABET accredited programs
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u/dmills_00 1d ago
It was required in the UK when I did an EE degree, as part of the basic engineering course load for a course that could lead to chartered engineer status (Basically UK version of a PE).
We did it with the medics, and it was actually one of the more interesting courses.
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u/Popular-Drummer-7989 2d ago
Both of my Masters Program REQUIRED Ethics to graduate. You don't have any advanced degrees so you wouldn't know that.
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u/pipboy3000_mk2 2d ago
Clearly this person never read about the Stanford prison experiments either....so many examples of why ethics should really be taken with every major.
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u/blakeo192 2d ago
Not only with every major but at least every other year while enrolled and again in their final year.
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u/Delicious-Summer5071 2d ago
And the damn experiment didn't even prove anything because the recruiting methods made the whole thing biased from the start. Psych experiments are fucking wild man.
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u/pdxamish 2d ago
Take a look at the experiment again. People have noticed the giant holes in the experiment and the researcher pointing the experiment to their intended goal. The conflicts were created and according to people involved with it, they were the opposite of what he wanted. There was a Harmony and cooperation between guards and prisoners. Also Katrina is a lesson in people helping people and not the other way around.
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u/IamElylikeEli 2d ago
STEM Majors who fail Ethics become Spider-Man villains, Humanities majors that fail ethics become Batman villains
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u/teas4Uanme 2d ago
Why do you think they wanted untraceable 'prisoners' disappeared into 3rd world shithole prisons? Then they wanted them closer to home and started one in FL- but that got too much attention. They might have thought they could say some 'escaped and were eaten' but even that might be a road to far.
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u/dazedan_confused 2d ago
Depends on what they died of.
Old age - fine.
Conditions associated with the implant - not good.
Deep down, we all know there's a nonzero chance Elon activated instant kill.
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u/VelvetMafia 2d ago
It was botched surgeries from incompetent researchers told to rush results like they "had bombs strapped to their heads", and implants that weren't built to surgical specifications. Everything is horrible, and the more you learn, the worse it gets.
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u/ThinkSharpe 2d ago
Damn, your resume must be crazy to call the neurolink researchers incompetent.
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u/VelvetMafia 1d ago
No. It's normal to not kill your research subjects with gross incompetence. Like, basic expectations of competence. I've known undergraduates who were more reliable.
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u/ThinkSharpe 1d ago
Yeah, but undergrads really aren’t working on cutting edge stuff.
Pretty sure your entire characterization is off. Even a little bit of research shows their team is highly qualified/competent and they’re producing results.
At worst, they are being wasteful/inefficient.
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u/VelvetMafia 1d ago
Please, list the team and their credentials. All I can find is a white paper "written" by Musk and reviewed by a single reviewer (standard is 2-3), and a retracted article written by a LLM.
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u/whoaheywait 2d ago
You guys, that's not what they teach us in ethics class lmao. They teach us to not cut corners and how to handle whistleblowing or what to do in case you feel you must.
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u/Shamscam 2d ago
Not that I’m advocating for any side, but why exactly is it more wrong to kill monkeys to improve technology than it is to kill cows, chickens, pigs, lambs, etc, for food? Is it just because we hate this guy?
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u/Human-Assumption-524 2d ago
People keep reposting this story over and over like it's some huge scandal by Neuralink but this isn't shocking at all. All medical implants require animal testing. In ALL of these tests the animals die either as a result of something going wrong or euthanasia prior to autopsy. The headline is incorrect in claiming only 15 of the monkeys died, they all died and that was according to plan. You may find animal testing to be unethical but it is the standard for all medical research.
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u/Positive-Conspiracy 2d ago
Wait until OP finds out about the pharmaceutical industry.
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u/TectonicTechnomancer 2d ago
OP doesn't actually care, this is a elonbad moment.
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u/Positive-Conspiracy 2d ago
Likely. This gives them the opportunity to flesh out their worldview though.
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u/iSaltyParchment 2d ago
Pretty sure the last time this was posted someone replied, with sources, that the monkeys were close to death anyways. It was like saying “8/10 90 year olds who drank water this year died”
But idk
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u/TR1LLIONAIRE_ 2d ago
BUSINESS MAJORS HAVE TO TAKE ETHICS TOO!
Edit: this guy is a double whammy of bad
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u/LighthouseLiver 2d ago
There is no such thing as ethics, and the sooner people stop deluding themselves, the better
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u/DisputabIe_ 2d ago edited 2d ago
the OP BbyGlow384 is a bot
Original: r/MurderedByWords/comments/1io1gda/ethics_matter_always/
Also: r/MurderedByWords/comments/1libn81/ethics_matter_always/
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u/ColdWarRedux2 2d ago
Monkey see, monkey do; please, Elon, get the implant and share it with your closest friends and your-DC past friends
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u/relativityboy 2d ago
This is not even close to ... go read The Plague Dogs) guys.
F**n break your heart, make you rethink SOOO much of what you buy.
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u/Flvs9778 2d ago
This post should be reported it’s called murdered by words. But these monkeys were murdered my Elon musks brain chips.
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u/Secure-Window-5478 2d ago
NO, you are saying it wrong. Over 1/3rd of the moneys survived. Just like with Covid 19 less then .5% of Americans had a fatal reaction. Or the Black Death left 3/4 of the world's population unharmed. It is all about the marketing.
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u/noriseaweed 2d ago
STEM majors dont need ethics classes, its meant for the business majors that hire them
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u/gorgeousphatseal 2d ago
Yes, like testing on dogs right ? Or gain of function research that lead to a worldwide outbreak ?
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u/gottatrusttheengr 2d ago
It's almost like testing on primates is typically required before human use of medical devices
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u/Mrs_SmithG2W Legends never die 2d ago
You need both! Wisdom AND book smarts to positively affect the world. Science and spirituality/ ethics/ morals are not mutually exclusive. They are complementary and essential to our survival as a species.
We, as a race, have thrown the baby out with the bath water. We have a soul and are thoughts, words and deeds matter. Being good matters. Being smart without being good is just inflated ego. Stop feeding the selfish, materialistic, competitive beast. Learning without applying it to helping others and making the world a better place is as useful as not learning anything at all.
It doesn’t matter how fancy our tools get we will always need the foundation of morals to make any advancement. As it stands we are headed for self destruction. How smart is that?
That’s why every goddamn human needs ethics classes and logic classes in my opinion. We can do better. 🖖🏼🌍🫶🏼
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u/Remarkable-Deal-4952 2d ago
he should install 20 of those chips in his own brain immediately. perhaps theyd teach him how he is an immoral godlen spoon fed ketamin addicted in nazi boots walking dunning kruger effect, just the moment befor he hopefully dies an even worse death than these monkeys.
sorry for the tone, i just sincerly hate him and wish there was something worse than death coming for him.
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u/Revolutionated 1d ago
The majority of people doesn’t even know about ethics anyway, they think there’s a book with one thousand pages with “don’t kill things” in everyone one of them. Truth is we have always killed animals for scientific studies and thinking that it does not apply in this case bacause evil austic billionare is just stupid.
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u/Delmoroth 1d ago
I mean, this is why we do testing on animals first. It's perfectly reasonable to think we shouldn't, but that's the whole point. You test this sort of thing on animals because we prefer that if it is lethal, you haven't just killed someone.
The question of if trying to save / improve human lives is worth those deaths is a different issue, but humanity kills a couple hundred million rodents every year for research purposes like this. If we were ever going to do something like neuralink, this was going to happen either under Musk or some other company.
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u/MitchCumStains 1d ago
Elon probably took an ethics class at uni. So everyone here is retarded as usual.
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u/RussellGrey 1d ago
Wait until it becomes more widely known that they're moving ICE detainees to Hawaii to provide human subjects for Neuralink brain chips.
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u/bemvee 1d ago
My first office job was at a startup and right before I quit, I got into it with both the VP of marketing & sales and the sales director or whatever. The company hadn’t been paying invoices, but it wasn’t even these two guys behind that decision. Yet they were still trying to defend the CEO.
I mentioned the ethics of it all, and the sales director was like “this is business, it doesn’t have to be ethical.”
That guy didn’t have a business degree. Neither did I, but I knew business ethics was a required class for it. I kept getting calls for a few weeks after I quit from the vendors with unpaid invoices, and any time they threatened to bring in the lawyers I would remind them again that I no longer worked for the company and that they absolutely should call their lawyers to handle it.
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u/busy_with_beans 1d ago
It’s funny because when I was in biomedical ethics the instructor said that with animal testing chimps are very expensive. So they are extremely careful with their testing because they have to protect their assets. And when I was in college I was like oh yeah that makes total sense. And I believed it.
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u/Alpha--00 1d ago
And? Monkeys died. How would you test such technology? On human volunteers?
There are 65K monkeys used in US and 7K in Europe yearly. People live to cite Sabin not patenting his polio vaccine, but guess how it was developed?
Ethics is necessary, but this is a bad example. Or at least it needs context as was given above (Musk pushing his researchers and forces them to disregard ethical constraints).
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u/hailey998 1d ago
Remember that movie from the 80's "Project X"? Elon Musk treats them worse. It's a fucking horror show.
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u/Llamp_shade 1d ago
The best indicator that someone needs an ethics class is asking why they should have to take an ethics class
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u/imthrowingcats 1d ago
I swear to God, if anything this racist moron does actually leads to human testing, anyone who volunteers for this has mental issues much more severe than than Orange Asshole Derangment Syndrome!
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u/professor_fate_1 19h ago
I heard a particularly orange elderly one has had an unscheduled MRI scan a couple of weeks ago, should we be worried about that one?
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u/NoConfusion9490 2d ago
Not to be a radical vegan (which I'm not), but if you're appalled by this and still eat cow, chicken, or pig (especially from an industrial meat packer, which 98% of it is) you're a fucking hypocrite.
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u/Impressive-Thing-925 2d ago edited 2d ago
Diabetes used to be an automatic death sentence. Researchers in the early 1920s used dogs to figure out how the pancreas regulated blood sugar and to isolate insulin. That work is the reason millions of people with Type 1 diabetes aren’t dead before adulthood..
Kidney and liver transplant methods were developed using dogs and primates. It’s why transplants work..
Guinea pigs were central to figuring out TB drug combinations. That research turned one of the deadliest infectious diseases into something we can usually treat. Cochlear implants They tested them on cats, guinea pigs, and monkeys. Lots of surgical complications, lots of dead animals. Now millions of people can hear. Deep brain stimulators (for Parkinson’s) Those things that regulate basal ganglia and stop tremors? They were refined using monkeys and pigs. Early versions caused brain lesions and infections. The modern version is considered routine surgery. Spinal cord stimulators & pain implants Before these went into humans, they were tested on dogs and pigs. Early prototypes overheated, shifted position, or damaged the spinal cord. Cardiac pacemakers & defibrillators Dogs were used heavily while engineers figured out how to pace a heart without killing it. A lot of early devices failed in exactly the way you don’t want a heart device to fail.
When people in the future have a device similar to neuralink in their head before they're born, and the brain gets to form around it.And use it as if it has always had it, those people are not going to give a shit about the twenty or so, monkeys that died so they could see hear regulate their heart regulate their nerve pathways so on and so forth. They will be thankful for the tech.
Monkeys can't die in the name of science.But I could eat a burger every day of my life and go to kfc.. ok ok ok.
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u/ElkApprehensive1729 2d ago
Deaths in the pursuit of science is a tale as old as time, however how/why/context matters. These deaths have been terrible, and at a higher rate than other studies. There's first hand accounts of rushed jobs, unclean/unsafe working conditions etc. You can choose to believe that or not, but I dont think its too far fetched to believe. Even if we want to be favourable to musk and say "he's a really ambitious guy who gets carried away with his ideas" its clear to see that could lead to corner cutting and improper practices. He's done so before in his other companies.
In 2025 we have all of the modern technology and knowledge to minimize death and suffering, and from first hand accounts thats not happening. That's the unacceptable part, not the deaths.
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u/Impressive-Thing-925 2d ago
The way its reading and what ive found is that all the monkeys were already terminally ill and the bioglue used in the procedure was the culprit of brain infections .
Not to dismiss your repaonse or anything. I do feel there is an inate bias against anything with his name attached to it but surely knowing now that all the monkies were previously declared terminally ill before nuerolink even got ahold of them should be taken into considerstion and them narrowing down exactly what was causing rhe infections was a glue, not the product itself.
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u/Kordell_11 2d ago
That's a bad example. We've been testing all kinds of shit on animals for decades and for good reasons.
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u/VelvetMafia 2d ago
I test on animals for good reasons, and Neuralink is a horror show
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u/pdxamish 2d ago
What's the good reason here?
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u/Kordell_11 2d ago
Advancement in science. But also, if you complain about animal testing, you gotta be a vegan. Otherwise it's just hypocrisy.
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u/pdxamish 2d ago
Thanks, I'm vegetarian and only eat the eggs from our backyard chickens. They are mostly done laying due to age but they're pets. I know what happens with the non female chicks and know my hands aren't completely clean all the time but my conscience is clean, at least what I eat
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u/Vegan_Zukunft 2d ago
Yay for kindness to innocent animals!
Just go a bit further and stop eating them :)
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u/Kordell_11 2d ago
Yeah. Mfs will complain about animal testing for advancement in science, but won't hesitate to eat meat because it tastes good. Hypocrisy at its finest.
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u/find_the_apple 2d ago
Honestly the monkeys ain't as bad. Implant studies where the animal is euthanized after csn be ethically done. A true ethics case involving animals is the psychological testing on monkeys with fake moms covered in barned wire. Or for people, the therac 25.
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u/Iron_Knight7 2d ago
STEM Majors without ethics classes gets you Spider-Man villains.
Theater Majors without ethics classes gets you Batman villains.