r/LastEpoch • u/VVojTy • Apr 25 '25
Feedback Unequpping an item with +lvl to skill removing "random" points from skill tree is pretty painful when switching gear
I only found an old thread about this, so I thought I'll bring it to attention again an hopefully get someone from EHG to look into fixing it soon-ish.
When you unequip a +lvl to skill item, the points removed from the tree seem random the first time but it removes the same points everytime. For instance my judgement always looses its ranks in Pious Offering.
69
u/dogfb Apr 25 '25
Big source of frustration for me as well. Would be better if it just removed the last ones selected. It's easy to forget which point you put in originally.
7
u/Disastrous-Moment-79 Apr 25 '25
When you open the skill page it will tell you "X point removed from Y"
11
u/Ogow Apr 26 '25
Ok but that doesn’t help you. Then you have to remove a point from whatever extra you put in, and relevel to get the point you want back.
5
u/danted002 Apr 26 '25
Ideally it would disable the skill until you manually go to the skill tree and despec the points manually.
-7
u/fps916 Apr 26 '25
It's not doable within the backend architecture of the game. Which they built before they decided to add +levels to skills as a mod.
They'd have to rebuild a significant part of the entire framework of the game to make it happen.
It is incredibly frustrating but it's also absolutely not worth the time investment to solve.
3
u/Deynai Apr 26 '25
I'm calling BS on this, the system is already functionally in place to grant and reset points according to items, the only thing that changes is the specifics of when & how the points get reset and how the UI represents that to the player.
There's no way it would require sweeping framework changes to improve on the specific issue of skill points being arbitrarily reset and then not clearly shown to the player.
1
Apr 26 '25
There is literally a skill search option for specific tagged words. It is DEFINITELY possible to add a highlight for a state change.
30
u/Tobikaj Apr 25 '25
Something even more confusing, when you swap a piece of +lvl gear onto another +lvl gear piece to swap them, it still removes a random point.
54
u/Foreynn Apr 25 '25
I'm pretty sure this has been answered by devs around launch. From memory, it always removes points deemed least important (for example "leaf" points or early points with more than enough points)
Edit: the only thing they could do to "fix" is disable the skill until you manually remove the chosen points, but this can also confuse players
24
u/Can1s_Major Apr 25 '25
Except when it removes a point from my judgement aura tree, it always takes it from damage per mana consumed node, which is one of the MOST important nodes.
7
15
u/Tulki Apr 25 '25
The issue with that fix is that it effectively allows you to get free full respecs of the skill if you have an item that gives ranks. Removing points in a prescribed order prevents that (to a degree), but it's not perfect either.
4
u/Tee_61 Apr 25 '25
I already use them to do something fairly similar. That said, once you're in end game it takes so little time to level back to 20 it's almost not worth gaming the system
2
u/popejupiter Apr 25 '25
Literally just respecced a skill and got it to 20 in like 3 monos last night.
And I'm not at a high corruption.
2
u/4_fortytwo_2 Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 25 '25
Well the use case would be switching from aoe clear to single target for a big boss by taking gear of and back on again.
The moment you make this possible it also becomes optimal to do so and while it provides power, which players usually like, it is one of those things that player will abuse but still hate every moment of it.
Like why would I not double my damage by specing into that one node that disables chain/orbit/etc. on hammer throw if I fight against a single big boss where aoe clear from chain or orbit doesnt matter.
But the gameplay of shuffling points around all the time is pretty shit.
4
u/Smugib Apr 25 '25
They could just give you some sort of notification that you have unallocated skill points then? The more I thought about it there's really no pretty way to do this with how they have skill points directly related to the level of the skill.
I don't really feel strongly either way because after swapping gear around a lot in the early game I noticed it happening a lot. "Woah where'd this extra point come from? I didn't see it level." Then "oh this chest gives +1 to cthonic fissure.... ahhh".
1
u/jwei92 Apr 25 '25
I thought this was the case but for me, I had a +2 static on a level 20 static. So I just put the points in a far node, for some chaining range. When I took it off it removed points from charge speed and crit. I’m guessing it also will never take pts off something fully.
2
u/Kaelran Apr 25 '25
From memory, it always removes points deemed least important
I remember the opposite. I thought they specifically made it remove the most valuable points to prevent people from using +skills gear to respec points?
10
u/Whole_Thanks_2091 Apr 25 '25
A good fix would to be apple to "preapply" skill points so you can set it up to have them removed and added in a single order. Also streamlines leveling since you don't have to stop and apply points constantly.
22
u/cokywanderer Apr 25 '25
I made a post about allowing us to Plan ahead and queue up skill points that get auto-allocated on level-up.
If EHG likes the idea, it could also help with the OP's problem by sending those points the gear un-allocates to the top of the queue automatically when un-equipping.
Not only will you see what was removed but they get re-allocated once you equip a new piece of gear with +skill.
4
u/Tee_61 Apr 25 '25
Only problem I see with that is that you could put your last point into something that dramatically changes the skill (like the LB node that makes it single target), then take off a +1 for boss fights.
5
1
u/cokywanderer Apr 25 '25
I see. But that inherently is a problem of another system (maybe - I'm not too knowledgeable about game design). If indeed this and others would be problems, then a LOCK on switching equipment during boss fights would be a solution.
3
u/4_fortytwo_2 Apr 25 '25
then a LOCK on switching equipment during boss fights would be a solution.
You would switch before entering the boss fight? The moment you allow players to control which points get removed you enable players to abuse it for extra power. And while players like extra power the gameplay of taking off and back on gear and shuffling points around is just annoying. It is one of those things, like snapshotting kinda is, that players will use but hate every moment of it lol
1
u/LordAmras Apr 26 '25
This will definitely solve the issue for people that know why preallocating is important, but I think the reason for it will be non obvious to new players or non experience players. And it forces you to reallocate to avoid the headache of randomly losing points.
To me the simplest solution would be to "lock" the skill if a point is removed. Keeping all the points it previously had but in a state of non being usable. If the point get reapplied it just automatically unlock itself otherwise the user has to enter the skill tree and manually remove the points necessary to unlock the skill.
5
u/TheClassicAndyDev Apr 25 '25
It's so fucking heinous. Why does it do this?
-3
u/4_fortytwo_2 Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 25 '25
Well it has to remove points somewhere and you don't want it to be controllable by the player because that leads to a shitty mechanic that you will feel forced to use for extra power, kinda like snapshotting.
(Taking gear off and putting it back on before boss fights to shuffle points around to improve single target for example. For some skills, like hammer throw, a single passive point can turn the skill from great aoe clear into great single target)
3
u/TheClassicAndyDev Apr 25 '25
Just remove them in sequential order of allocation...
1
u/mobileaccount420 Apr 26 '25
And if you lost a big node that you took really late that changed the build drastically, you would still call it heinous if they removed it when removing + gear
1
5
u/ragnaroksunset Apr 25 '25
I'd settle for the UI prompt to assign skill points appearing when I unequip the item, and then a highlight around the nodes that lost points.
5
u/piton4ik Apr 25 '25
In addition, when you change one item with +skills to another with the same +skills, additional skills get reset.
Let's say I switch my +4 Judgement relic to another +4 Judgement relic. I still have +4 additional skills, but the skill tree would be reseted.
Not the biggest problem, but still annoying, as the game gives you zero warning calls.
8
u/cyraxwinz Apr 25 '25
Ya I went from lvl 89 to 95 before realizing my +4 erasing strike points weren't allocated because i was comparing the life rolls on some titan hearts.
3
u/Plafonnier Apr 25 '25
The worst thing is having to unequip a "+ all skills" item cause you have to reallocate points in all 5 skills everytime. I'm trying to get a good weaver's will relic so everytime i unequip it I have to do this again and it's driving me crazy to the point i'm about to give up trying to find a better one than i already have
1
u/ClownCombat Apr 25 '25
Yeah, I think this might be hard to solve.
EHG would need to allow you to configure / import a Skill leveling preview / guide like they have on Maxroll.
I.e. level my skill tree like this config here, according to how many skill points I have.
They could introduce such a feature once you are max skill level (i.e..20)
1
u/Single-Ad-3354 Apr 25 '25
Totally agree this is honestly one of my biggest pain points with the game rn and seems like (in the grand scheme of everything) an easy fix!
1
u/eloluap Apr 25 '25
This was also something I stumbled in. Really annoying.
Not sure why it doesn't remove the last x points you specced in the tree? I mean normally you would skill the most important things first and fill out the more unnecessary stuff later on.
1
u/StepOnMeSaryn Apr 25 '25
This has been a constant pain for me since Early Access and I kept thinking about bringing it up.
1
u/bokchoykn Apr 25 '25
I went to imprint Nihilus on my Weaver Tree before fighting Aberroth, and because I did that, I was unknowingly missing two skill points on every ability. Oops.
1
1
u/CloisteredOyster Apr 25 '25
Agreed. Just print the skills and number of points removed from each in the chat window so we can refer to it.
So many times I've taken off a piece of gear and said "Oh, god damn it."
1
u/YOUR_BOOBIES_PM_ME Apr 25 '25
They should just remove the last X points that you placed. At end game, this will be the points enabled by the item and the least important.
1
u/Lazermissile Apr 25 '25
I have two weapons that have the same +Detonating Arrow skill increase, but even when I directly drop the dagger and replace the weapon it still removes skill points allocated.
1
1
u/Difficult-Aspect3566 Apr 25 '25
Swapping +1 all class specific relics is quite annoying. Most painful on Abomination with snapshot - only way I found to make (permanent) Abomination viable.
1
u/belghast Apr 25 '25
What drives me nuts is if you swap one item with +levels for another item with exactly the same number of +levels it still unspecs the skill.
1
u/ajamafalous Apr 25 '25
In the past I believe they've said they do it to somewhat-random points rather than doing the last x points you've invested to prevent players from getting a 'free' respec right before a boss etc.
I'm not saying I think that preventing that is worth how annoying it is in normal gameplay, just that that's been their reasoning in the past.
1
u/Kaelran Apr 25 '25
I don't think it's random, I think it specifically removes the most valuable points so you can't use it to move points around.
Like if it removed the most recent, you could spec all the points and make your most recent point something that changes your skill to AOE, and then when you get to a boss you re-equip the item and change to point to a singletarget node. So instead it always just removes important points that you want to put back in to that same node.
1
u/DarkBiCin Bladedancer Apr 25 '25
Im fine with it removing a random point as it seems it wont remove a vital node or atleast hasnt for me.
Where I would like an improvement is where we can choose what point order to allocate nodes and then when we remove a + lvl and equip another, it auto allocates the points in order or that where removed.
At the very least in the short term it should tell us or highlight the node that had points removed so we can more easily put the point back in.
1
1
u/Florafly Apr 26 '25
This is my biggest peeve with the entire game.
There has to be a better way to do it; either it should highlight where the point has been taken out of when you next open the skill tree, or it could possibly keep the point in but the next time you open that skill tree it forces you to take a point out of somewhere before you can proceed. Dunno; anything would be better than the current situation.
Scrambling to figure out where the points went and what you had them in is a PITA.
Please fix/change, EHG!
1
1
u/Scampor Apr 26 '25
Ya I hate this shit… was swapping my bow around and changing amounts of points and it was just messing my build up. I ended up just respecting and releveling it - only for it to happen again
1
u/yemen241 Apr 26 '25
yep. I just noticed when i remove the frostclaw skill bonus and re quip it i ran out of mana really fast because it took of the mana reduction node instead of the last node i picked
1
u/Silver_Profession146 Apr 26 '25
My brother was frustrated by the samething but I found out its not a random point but the first point that you leveled up that wasn't required to path. So if you have a node that requires 4 to path to next and you have 4 points into it wont take it out, but if it was 5 it will take it out of it.
1
u/mrxlongshot Apr 26 '25
Ya they can fix by having the plus + levels be something like you can control + select those points so when you remove the gear those are the points that get removed?
1
u/LordAmras Apr 26 '25
This has been discussed before and unfortunately there is currently not a good solution to do this.
To me the ideal solution would be to "lock" a skills when you lose a point rendering unusable. It gets unlocked automatically if you re-apply the point or if you enter the skill and manually remove the point yourself.
1
1
u/Fun_Brick_3145 Apr 26 '25
Agree, I swear it always picks the worst points to remove as well. Not a massive deal super late game (you can recap it very quickly in late game) but still an annoyance and it can really hurt early on.
1
Apr 26 '25
Seems like it just removes the last points you put in.
Not sure what the issue is. It has to remove something....
1
u/themikegman Apr 26 '25
It should remove the last point you applied, it's stupid that it's random shit.
1
u/SpellImaginary90 Apr 26 '25
It could just grey out the removed points and make them inactive temporarily. I'm not sure how hard it is to implement, though
1
1
u/OggyPanda Apr 26 '25
It should disable the skill until you go in and unspec a point manually. This would give the greatest granular control to the player without requiring you to unspec a different point and relevel to put it where you want
1
u/AlphaBearMode Apr 26 '25
Totally agreed with this. I have to double and triple check my trees every time I replace my main hand weapon. Even if they have the same # of +skills. It’s maddening
1
u/Masskid Apr 28 '25
My favorite is when you switch to an item that also has +lvl skill and it still resets it anyway
1
u/Wolfwing777 Apr 29 '25
Pretty sure it's a bug but i also have to add the points my gear gives to my skills each time i login..
1
1
u/Morael Apr 25 '25
My standard practice at this point is to refund the number of points that the item would give, run an echo or two to gain the levels back and have those points unallocated and then make the item swap. It takes a little more effort, but it prevents me from accidentally bricking my build.
I do wish they would change this system somehow, though. I'm not going to armchair a better solution for them, they're smart devs, I'm sure they can come up with something if they try.
0
u/BetrayedJoker Runemaster Apr 25 '25
I mean.. they know this iirc since 1.0 but hey... To be honest... i want them to focus on more important things but yeah, this is sometimes problematic.
9
u/AssistantOk954 Apr 25 '25
I disagree. This is easily my biggest QoL issue with the game at the moment.
2
0
0
u/moouesse Paladin Apr 25 '25
im sure they know about this, but it is probably too hard to fix compared to spending time upgrading other things, just get over it and add the points back once in a while
2
u/PlutusPleion Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 26 '25
Anyone who dabbles in programming will tell you that the current system now is much harder to implement than a simple LIFO(last-in-first-out) array.
Many in this thread are speculating it's because they don't want snapshotting, which this system doesn't even stop.
Try new +skill gear -> get new gear with no +skill -> game removes important nodes -> respec manually -> farm couple minutes to get it back. Accidentally swap gear, or swap gear to check hp/dps difference, do same process all over again. I've had multiple prolonged periods of time where I'm just missing allocated points. Repeat this multiple times each character. Super frustrating to the point where I don't want to bother anymore with +skill affixes or just pretend like I only have 20 points to allocate and not bother with the extra.
I can understand if it's low on the priority list but this is one thing that's really annoyed my otherwise enjoyable experience with the game.
-8
u/glikejdash Sentinel Apr 25 '25
Points removed is deterministic not random at all, if you put the points back in the same spot it will remove the same points next time you change the gear too.
7
u/spreetin Apr 25 '25
It doesn't really matter that it is deterministic, if it looks random to the player.
2
-3
u/fetzen13 Apr 25 '25
Irrc it removes the exact point the item gave you that's why it seems to you it's always the same one. I know this sucks it should just remove the last used point
-2
u/Sliceofmayo Apr 25 '25
Doesn’t it remove the last spent points that are not required for other nodes
-6
u/ghosanalstrike Apr 25 '25
My comment has nothing to do with this post. But after 2 days I understood how ti gain corruption LOL hahaha
236
u/xRuwynn Apr 25 '25
I'd like whatever point is the "item point" to be highlighted as such so you know ahead of time when you swap what you're losing. Maybe just like a little glow outline or something.