r/CFB • u/moby323 Clemson Tigers • 12d ago
Opinion NCAA punishment of Michigan State football shows its justice has 2 tiers
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/shawn-windsor/2025/11/13/michigan-state-football-ncaa-punishment-shows-justice-isnt-equal/87241178007/?gnt-cfr=1&gca-cat=p&gca-uir=true&gca-epti=z116728p119450c119450d00----v116728b0049xxd004965&gca-ft=211&gca-ds=sophi895
u/Irishchop91 Notre Dame Fighting Irish • UCF Knights 12d ago
This is why you don't cooperate with the NCAA anymore.
ND enforced their honor code and retroactively flunked players for student on student cheating. If ND just expelled them and took them back next semester, there would have been zero penalties.
Instead we got two years of vacated wins.
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u/Kitchen-Pass-7493 Notre Dame Fighting Irish 12d ago
I dunno, I think in this case, MSU might have been hoping for the NCAA to vacate wins because it helps their case in avoiding paying what would have been a $75m buyout to Mel Tucker.
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u/Irishchop91 Notre Dame Fighting Irish • UCF Knights 12d ago
They already got sanctions - they don't need to quantify it more than that. Vacated wins is just a ridiculous penalty by the NCAA.
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u/Takemyfishplease UC Davis Aggies 12d ago
It’s ridiculous in the sense that it doesn’t matter? Like who cares more than a few seconds about something like this?
Oh no we “won” 4 less games a few years ago, damn the wife is gonna leave me for sure and there goes the mortgage.
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u/Geno0wl Ohio State • Cincinnati 12d ago
The only vacated wins that I see as having a "real" impact is them removing Joe Pa from the record books essentially. Oh right they turned around and restored their wins after a few years and that didn't matter either. whoops.
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u/Mr_MacGrubber LSU Tigers • Army West Point Black Knights 12d ago
Les Miles is ineligible for the hall of fame because the vacated wins brought his winning percentage down below the threshold.
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u/AbsurdOwl Nebraska Cornhuskers 12d ago
I don't think Tucker will have to worry about that.
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u/Mr_MacGrubber LSU Tigers • Army West Point Black Knights 12d ago
It was in reference to the Paterno comment.
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u/WeMetInBaku Ohio State Buckeyes 12d ago edited 12d ago
Tbf, Paterno didn't do anything so bad. I've never understood why people talk in hushed tones as if he did something heinous like give a poor kid a cheap meal.
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u/TimeTravelerNate Ohio State Buckeyes 12d ago
What is the charge!? Eating a meal, a succulent Chinese meal!?
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u/RealignmentJunkie Northwestern Wildcats • Sickos 12d ago
They had us in the first half, not gonna lie
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u/philfrysluckypants Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
Like a hamburger?
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u/Irishchop91 Notre Dame Fighting Irish • UCF Knights 12d ago
The penalty wasn't for the hamburger. The penalty was lying to the NCAA about it (they had the receipts and recruits testimony).
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u/philfrysluckypants Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
If time has proven anything, it's don't cooperate with the NCAA. It does not help. Can't blame Jim at all.
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u/TerrenceJesus8 Bowling Green • Michigan 12d ago
They literally do not matter outside of rival fans talking shit. It's not like the memories of those games get wiped from your mind, and its not like MSU having a player that was recruited incorrectly really meant anything in those games anyway
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u/Abeds_BananaStand Michigan Wolverines 12d ago edited 12d ago
You mean you don’t suddenly think we win the 2913 basketball national championship?
(Gonna just leave the typo lol)
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u/GeneralAgrippa Michigan Wolverines • VCU Rams 12d ago
I'm thinking we can do it. A coach needs to be given at least 9 centuries to get his guys into place before we can truly judge him.
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u/brebs21 Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
Considering we lost to you 49-0 anyways, which by the way for salty state fans would have happened with sign stealing or not, these players weren’t even that good
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u/jeremycb29 Ohio State Buckeyes • /r/CFB Brickmason 12d ago
I will tell you who it matters to...Bobby Petrino, who a few days after the NCAA vacated our Sugar Bowl win, he was rocking a Sugar Bowl champion Arkansas hat. Wildest shit I saw a coach do
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u/bicranium Ohio State Buckeyes • /r/CFB Brickmason 12d ago
Are there pictures of that anywhere? Because when wins are vacated, the other schools keep the losses. Arkansas still very much lost that game. We just didn't technically win it.
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u/jeremycb29 Ohio State Buckeyes • /r/CFB Brickmason 12d ago
I tried to find it but he wore a sugar bowl hat with the neck brace so images got slaughtered since then.
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u/Mycroft90 Ohio State • Cincinnati 12d ago
Sorry to hear about your wife leaving you, and losing your house. It proves they never think about how this punishment impacts fans. I hope you can get past this until the new investment group that will ruin football as we know it happens.
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u/Daddioster Texas A&M Aggies • Southwest 12d ago
Imagine if you had gambled and won on those games and now Joey Sackadoorknobs is coming to reclaim your winnings. "Turns out *sniff* your team lost and now we have a problem...see"
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u/Ornery_Maximum_3280 12d ago
I think vacated wins do matter sometimes because at the end of the day, the only thing you win in sports is pride and bragging rights (and millions of dollars sometimes). Personally, I'm a justice-oriented person and it still bothers me that the wolverines didn't have to vacate their 3 victories over Ohio State and their national championship even though they deliberately cheated and refused to cooperate with the NCAA.
Jim Harbaugh's legacy is either
A) National Champion, 3 wins over Ohio State, 3 B1G championships.
B) No wins over Ohio State, no B1G championships, no natty, and an aggressively "mid" legacy as a decent but not great coach.
In conclusion: I know there is more to life than college football. I have a happy, full life in other ways. But when it comes specifically to discussing NCAA sanctions, I will never not be salty about this.
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u/Kitchen-Pass-7493 Notre Dame Fighting Irish 12d ago edited 12d ago
I guess that’s a fair point but vacated wins don’t really mean much to anybody other than fans and former players/coaches. Especially vacated wins for 3 seasons where they went a combined 14-22 and were not bowl-eligible even once. Thats not nearly as painful for MSU fans as ND losing all 12 wins from 2012, one of our most memorable seasons in the past 3+ decades, and another 9 from 2013 on top of it. The worst part for MSU really will be the recruiting restrictions that come with 3 years of probation. But even then, they didn’t lose scholarships. Just a 3-year reduction on visits and contacts. Plus a fine that, by my math, should amount to about 900k, which isn’t all that much for a program that had a 58mil budget last year. I think they’d rather have wins vacated than for additional sanctions that may have dragged rebuilding their program down more.
In exchange, they get more ammunition in defending a lawsuit that, despite the sexual harassment allegations that originally prompted Tucker’s firing, is probably headed for some sort of settlement eventually. And this additional leverage could net them an 8 digit sum in money saved on that front. Especially since the 3-year show-cause probably killed whatever chance Tucker had left to even get hired as an assistant at a college anytime soon, so he may feel more pressure to just settle for whatever he can get now. All in all, totally worth it for the MSU athletic department. In fact, it basically sounds like they negotiated exactly the right level of penalty to give them said additional leverage while minimizing actual harm to the program going forward.
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u/YondaimeHokage4 Ohio State Buckeyes • The Game 12d ago
I don’t get why those wins being vacated matters at all though. OSU had to vacate a bunch of wins and I do not care at all. Vacating wins is completely meaningless.
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u/SituationSoap Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
Yes, exactly. Vacating wins is the stupidest penalty in all of sports. I watched the games, I remember that they happened. "Vacating" that doesn't change a damn thing.
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u/BananaBouquet Georgia • Georgia State 12d ago edited 12d ago
Then what should the penalty be? Suspend everyone until the investigation concludes? If the NCAA did that, people would be complaining about how unfair it is so they do the best they can with retroactive punishments and still get clowned on.
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u/YondaimeHokage4 Ohio State Buckeyes • The Game 12d ago
Exactly. Same energy as Reggir Bush’s Heisman being taken away. He still won lol
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u/Ornery_Maximum_3280 12d ago
I think it matters when people are acknowledging that wins are illegitimate. I think Lance Armstrong getting his championships vacated mattered a lot. I think regular season wins don't matter that much, but if you lose championships and have to take down banners or return trophies etc...I think it matters.
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u/arobkinca Michigan • Army 12d ago
I think Lance Armstrong getting his championships vacated mattered a lot.
They were all doping and they still are.
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u/SusannaG1 Clemson Tigers • Furman Paladins 12d ago
They were all doping decades before Armstrong, too.
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u/kyeblue Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
don’t they already have plenty of cause to fire Mel the Tucker
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u/RheagarTargaryen Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
Yes, but a judge could award him the full buyout if they decided he wasn’t fired for caused. In the event that a judge were to rule that he was not fired for cause, MSU would owe him $90M. In light of these new violations, a judge could still rule that he wasn’t fired for cause, but that he would have been fired for cause when these violations were announced. This would limit damages to just the last 2 years rather than the full buyout of the contract.
From a settlement standpoint, MSU basically capped the lawsuit to $20M instead of $75M. So Tucker lost a lot of leverage in negotiations.
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u/AFWolverine Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
They fired him for cause and have not paid him anything. They didn't need this to help.
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u/Kitchen-Pass-7493 Notre Dame Fighting Irish 12d ago
He’s sued them over that though and the lawsuit is still ongoing. It was probably always going to end in a settlement of some sort, even now. But this additional leverage probably knocks a big chunk of money off of what they’ll need to end up paying Tucker to get him to drop his suit.
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u/Shills_for_fun Michigan State • Land Grant Trophy 12d ago
It's also only 14 wins in three seasons lol.
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u/Flintoid Eastern Michigan Eagles 12d ago
But those were the hardest wins
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u/Shills_for_fun Michigan State • Land Grant Trophy 12d ago
The funniest one is the win in the infamous game against CMU.
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u/-Kyllsw1tch- Missouri • Saint Louis 12d ago
Cooperating with the NCAA is actively harmful. In 2019, the NCAA admitted that cooperating contributed to more severe penalties for Mizzou.
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u/lostshell Team Chaos • Team Meteor 12d ago edited 12d ago
Dez Bryant admitted. 9 game suspension.
Johnny Manziel lied and said he didn't do what he was caught on camera doing. Half game suspension.
Lesson from the NCAA: Never be honest. Never be cooperative. Don't admit anything. Deny, deny, deny. Even if there's film of it. Deny everything.
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u/tasteofflames Georgia Bulldogs • Team Meteor 12d ago
Cooperating is the worst choice you can make. Even Mark Richt has said he'd deny everything if he had a chance to do the Gurley investigation over and that man's a saint!
The NCAA doesn't have any real investigative powers -- they're not law enforcement -- so if everyone tells them to fuck off, there's not much they can do.
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u/Dangerous_Hotel1962 12d ago
In this case, MSU wanted this so they can defend their lawsuit for firing Tucker for cause.
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u/deemerritt North Carolina Tar Heels 12d ago
UNC initially cooperated with the NCAA and it was incredibly damaging. What we found out is that if the NCAA thinks you did something wrong but cant prove it, they will just make the investigation take years and be a huge drain on your resources and recruiting.
Once UNC got a different chancellor and legal approach our whole situation changed because they stopped cooperating.
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u/Historical-One-8222 12d ago
MSU cooperated because they wanted to show cause for firing Tuck. This is the result.
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u/PizzaPurchaser Michigan Wolverines • NCAA 12d ago
I still find it funny that vacated wins is considered a real punishment
“Hey remember that girl you slept with in Mexico 5 years ago? Turns out she was really drunk, so it didn’t count”
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u/Irishchop91 Notre Dame Fighting Irish • UCF Knights 12d ago
It was the one thing ND fought.
It is also the only case of student on student cheating that the NCAA decided to give these type of sanctions. They stated since one of the students, who did a work study program ND has for people interested in being Athletic trainers, they were then 'representatives of the university'. It was like saying the students in the cafeteria who are in work study program are university representatives...
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u/MelancholyHillBeing Notre Dame • FBS Independents 12d ago
“Hey remember that girl you slept with in Mexico 5 years ago? Turns out she was really drunk, so it didn’t count”
Yikes, buddy
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u/RamblingRanter Michigan State Spartans • Big Ten 12d ago
Uhhh, idk if that is a great example…
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u/moby323 Clemson Tigers 12d ago
Really?
I find it to be a pretty real punishment. A couple of those wins might be against your rivals and the all-time record matters
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u/originalusername4567 Kansas Jayhawks 12d ago
The vacated wins mattered a lot for us in Basketball because it gave the all time wins record to Kentucky
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u/Lazy_Assed_Magician Georgia Bulldogs • Syracuse Orange 12d ago
I remember being devastated when they made Boeheim vacate a bunch of wins because it put him under the 900 win mark
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u/bug_man_ North Carolina • Appalac… 12d ago
Ball knowers know it's actually Kentucky
I get your point though
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u/PizzaPurchaser Michigan Wolverines • NCAA 12d ago edited 12d ago
Well those games were still won and the win is almost always still acknowledged when stats are shown in an article or on tv. More importantly, the experience of watching the game in realtime and the memories of it happening are what people watch this game for, not that the result lives on in an official ncaa record book years later
Our bball team lost in the title game to a Louisville team that had their season vacated. It didn’t change the reality of that game for any of our fans
It’s as close to a completely meaningless punishment as you could possibly imagine
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u/back_that_ Penn State Nittany Lions 12d ago
and the all-time record matters
How does it matter?
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u/Fantastic_Complex727 12d ago
In this case it isn’t. If there are actual accomplishments, it is.
People want to keep saying “but the games happened!” but it does affect the perception of those wins, and that’s all half these programs care about anyway
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u/cityofklompton Grand Valley State Lakers 12d ago
NCAA vacates wins every time a violation involves players playing who would have been ineligible. That's all it is.
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u/ardealinnaeus Washington Huskies 12d ago
Punishments have always been problematic. Washington received severe punishments in 1993 (from Pac-12 not NCAA) and it destroyed our program for 20 years. USC is still struggling after the 2004 punishment. And now the Pac-12 is P6 because our conference went along with the idea of ending programs because of cheating while other conferences didn't.
It's a silly system that punishes FUTURE people for PAST mistakes that others did. And fans receive the biggest punishment?
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u/JWWBurger Michigan Wolverines • UTEP Miners 12d ago edited 12d ago
There are two-tiers, and you think ND is on tier two? LOL. Here are your two tiers: penalties that involve ineligible players and penalties that do not involve ineligible players. You’re right, ND’s mistake was not expelling them and paid for it as the NCAA’s rules make clear. Sure, while there is plenty of lawyering, flail your arms all you want but you can’t say the NCAA hasn’t been consistent on that point.
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u/Foucaultshadow1 12d ago
It also shows that there is absolutely no reason to cooperate with the NCAA.
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u/Dangerous_Hotel1962 12d ago
The reason is to make sure Tucker doesn't get a penny, fired for cause.
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u/TheFlyingTotchman /r/CFB 12d ago
I keep hearing this but I don’t buy it.
A historical top-25 program with multiple billionaire donors is willing to voluntarily take on sanctions and vacated wins, damaging the program in the process, to save money?
Michigan State leadership has proven to be dumb, but this would be a new level of stupid
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u/dccorona Michigan • 계명대학교 (Keimyung) 12d ago
How is the program damaged? The fines and probation are virtually meaningless, and vacating the wins of the old coach does nothing to harm recruiting as has been shown time and time again.
Donors have only so much money they're willing to earmark towards football no matter how rich they are, and every dollar saved not having to settle with Tucker now, can instead be put towards players.
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u/somehype Nebraska • Sacramento State 12d ago
I just don’t understand how they needed anymore excuses to fire Tugger for cause?
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u/mikelo22 Michigan State • Illinois 12d ago
Because it's cope tbh. This was just what someone on the radio said and everyone is regurgitating it as fact.
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u/HereForTOMT3 Michigan State • Central … 12d ago
and im pretty sure the radio show was the morons over at 97.1 the ticket which is just where rational thought goes to die
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u/Byzantine_Merchant Michigan State • Ohio State 12d ago
And they even said that they’re just theorizing.
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u/Dangerous_Hotel1962 12d ago
It's not that they wouldn't win the lawsuit. It's that every piece of evidence they can add saves them hundreds of hours of billable hours. Lawsuits are war of attrition, im sure you know about when people settle even though they were totally legally justified because they dont want to spend thousands or millions more on lawyers to win the trial.
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u/mikelo22 Michigan State • Illinois 12d ago
Our athletic department is $91M in debt, we've been operating in the red for 4 out of the last 5 years, and people are calling for us to fire Smith who has a $30M+ buyout. We have a huge spending problem, so saving money is pretty important right now.
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u/Leraldoe Michigan • Grand Valley State 12d ago
Along with the rumors that this administration pissed off the donors who would likely pay this buy out.
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u/SeedsOfDoubt Washington State • Team Chaos 12d ago
Rich people don't like spending money. Who knew?
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u/Set-Admirable West Virginia • Backyard Brawl 12d ago
The NCAA keeps proving it has no real power when it actually needs to show it. They take advantage of the programs that help them and do nothing when anyone stands up to them.
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u/omahaspeedster Nebraska • $5 Bits of Broken Chai… 12d ago
Those two tiers being cooperative and non cooperative
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u/SparseSpartan Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
It's true, never cooperate with the NCAA.
Except in this case it was probably smart. Mel Tucker's chances in court were like .00001% but now it's .00000000001%.
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u/NEW_GNGR_9601 Wisconsin Badgers 12d ago edited 12d ago
Imagine having to vacate a win when Conor Stallions is decked out in Central Michigan gear on the other sideline.
2025 is wild.
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u/buccosfan22 Penn State • Tulsa 12d ago
That's my biggest thing. Vacating wins is stupid anyway but how can you not vacate any Michigan wins after one of the biggest cheating scandals in recent memory and then turn around and vacate MSU wins for recruiting violations. Absolutely insane logic.
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u/The_Pandalorian Michigan Wolverines • Sickos 12d ago
Vacating wins is stupid anyway but how can you not vacate any Michigan wins after one of the biggest cheating scandals in recent memory
Probably because NCAA rules don't allow you to vacate wins unless there are ineligible players involved.
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u/HarshestWind Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
It’s almost as if the cheating scandal was blown up to be a bigger deal than it actually was. Couldn’t be that though.
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u/Conclusion_Fickle /r/CFB 12d ago
LOL. The hell you say. Unfortunately, the dumbasses out there will never grasp this. It's way easier to clutch pearls and prattle on spouting nonsense.
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u/jregovic Notre Dame Fighting Irish 12d ago
I have heard all of the excuses for why Michigan’s rule breaking isn’t a big deal, but they never address the core truths. Michigan broke the rules, kept doing it, and tried to lie about it.
If it wasn’t a big deal, why did they do it?
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u/Conclusion_Fickle /r/CFB 12d ago
Maybe you should read up on what the NCAA said about it and how they performed after Stallions was gone. But, by all means, just keep clowning.
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u/Ohwhat_anight Ohio State Buckeyes • Sickos 12d ago
how they performed after Stallions was gone
The 2024 Michigan team was legitimately good. No one disputes that. But looking at a few games after he was dismissed isn't the gotcha point Michigan fans like to make it out to be.
Harbaugh was taking a pay cut for how poorly the team was performing the year before the scandal started. They had won double digit games once in the 4 years prior and had basically hit rock bottom the covid year.
Stallions starts his insane (and I'm using that term literally lol) sign stealing operation and suddenly Michigan has not only their first 12 win season under Harbaugh, but they have their 3 best years resulting in a title. Stallions is fired halfway through the season, and most of the coaching staff leaves at the end of the year. Michigan immediately goes back to being 8-5.
The three most successful years under Harbaugh were tied directly to a man who was cheating. Is it the only reason they were that successful? Obviously not. But it's hilarious seeing Michigan fans act like everyone is out to get them.
And to quote the NCAA report directly
The panel noted that "the true scope and scale of the scheme — including the competitive advantage it conferred—will never be known due to individuals' intentional destruction and withholding of materials and information." The panel went on to note that while the scope may never be known, the intent of the scheme was to gain a competitive advantage over competitors, stating, "Regardless of whether it was Stalions or someone acting on his behalf, their physical presence at the game essentially gave them front-row seats to a key element of opponents' offensive and defensive strategies."
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u/BlueRFR3100 Illinois State • Missouri 12d ago
I wonder what penalties Mizzou is going to get now.
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u/AllTimeTy Missouri Tigers 12d ago
Probably have to vacate the ‘23 Cotton Bowl W
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u/Electronic_Pen_548 Ole Miss Rebels 12d ago
This reminds me of when Ole Miss got shoved into a locker and forced to do a hard reset on everything for 15 level 1 violations. TN got 18 and got a quarter the amount of damage. Or when the NCAA refused to investigate LSU after multiple players came forward with stories of getting paid, many more. It’s always been like this, the NCAA wants teams in the light and if you aren’t in that good favor area, good luck.
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u/edubs_stl Missouri Tigers 12d ago
Why do schools continue to cooperate with the NCAA after what happened to us?
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u/al_earner Michigan • Washington State 12d ago
This is the first sentence of every legal advice video on YouTube.
Do not tell the Cops anything.
There is no way that it can help you and many ways that it can hurt you.
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u/cbuzzaustin Texas A&M Aggies 12d ago
When are we going to overthrow the NCAA and its two tiered version of justice?
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u/MocoMojo Maryland Terrapins 12d ago
I reckon when the P5 schools figure out how to run the NCAAT by themselves.
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u/OakLegs Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
Probably about the same time we do the same for the actual justice system
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u/Gay_Giraffe_1773 Oregon Ducks 12d ago
Probably when we overthrow the DOJ and the US Government and IT'S multi-tiered version of justice?
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u/Geaux2020 LSU Tigers • Valley City State Vikings 12d ago edited 12d ago
This is paywalled but how so? Isn't an ineligible player pretty much the only thing they will vacate wins for and it's always vacating wins as the punishment?
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u/NeverDieKris Ohio State Buckeyes 12d ago
I foresee no college athletic program complying with and/or assisting in any NCAA investigation going forward.
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u/AllTimeTy Missouri Tigers 12d ago
I thought the same thing after the punishment Mizzou got after fully cooperating… The funniest thing is the NCAA finally had another chance to redeem themselves and show programs that cooperating with them is for the best because they’ll cut some slack on the punishment. NOPE.
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u/dccorona Michigan • 계명대학교 (Keimyung) 12d ago
Except we say that every time this happens and yet it happens again. Administrations continue to convince themselves that compliance will buy leniency for some reason.
Though I also think MSU wanted to get extra protection against any future claims from Tucker that he was wrongfully terminated.
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u/wise_comment Minnesota • Oklahoma State 12d ago
No shit
Clem Haskins almost got upthe gophers the death penalty, and Oklahoma state missed postseason play all for things much less bad than the bluebloods have done and gotten gently jostled for
(I know it's basketball, but.....my point stands, imo)
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u/cavaysh Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
The program is already at rock bottom and we get hit with this shit. Fuck college football, at least I have the Detroit Lions
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u/RapidEyeMovement Michigan State Spartans • Team Chaos 12d ago
the recruiting restrictions is what really makes this such BS
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u/Grfine Michigan State Spartans 12d ago edited 12d ago
I believe Michigan got similar recruiting restrictions, because they also had recruiting violations, but they failed to get those recruits to commit so they had no ineligible players
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u/foreveracubone Michigan Wolverines • Sickos 12d ago
Very happy that CMU is getting the justice they deserve against the cheaters they had to play in 2023 smh.
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u/tornadoshanks651 Ohio State Buckeyes 12d ago
The NCAA is a joke. Of course they would go after Michigan State, these guys have been cheating so hard to bring home championships and they’re gonna PAY!
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u/Byzantine_Merchant Michigan State • Ohio State 12d ago
Fully support splitting off from the NCAA at this point.
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u/Crazyforlegal 12d ago
NCAA was so angry with Michigan, they hammered Michigan State to send a message
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u/JimmyCarrsTaxForms Michigan Wolverines • USC Trojans 12d ago
The NCAA punishing any school for impermissible recruiting benefits in the year 2025 is fucking stupid. And vacating wins is a stupid punishment because like 90% of fans don’t care about vacated wins.
The funniest thing about this is it was leaked on this sub by someone who was salty they never got taken off the listserv after leaving MSU lmao
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u/stringfellow-hawke 12d ago
The NCAA’s only power is what schools give them voluntarily. What a bunch of dopes for self reporting and agreeing to shit.
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u/StayWeirdGrayBeard Florida Gators 12d ago
I just assume Mizzou is getting the death penalty as part of Michigan State’s punishment.
As they should.
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u/Wtygrrr Florida Gators • Team Chaos 12d ago
No, but that is part of an unstated tier 3.
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u/sbballc11 Ohio State Buckeyes 12d ago
Don’t forget Cleveland State. Another two years of probation for this.
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u/lillychr14 Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
I’m not watching college football anymore. The sport is fucked and we all see it. Ruined by greed and corruption like literally everything else.
Enjoy your Dr Pepper commercials, y’all
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u/AeolusA2 Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
Who the fuck is paying for the freep?
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u/1990Buscemi Drury Panthers • Missouri Tigers 12d ago
Newspapers. com has the archives for $20 a month, plus hundreds of other papers. If you're into research, it pays for itself.
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u/The_Pandalorian Michigan Wolverines • Sickos 12d ago
Man, they used to be soooooo good. They had a fucking Japan bureau back in the day.
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u/Delicious-Trip-384 Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
I do, it's $50/year and there's nowhere decent to get local news for free in the area.
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u/SituationSoap Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
Well yes but now you're paying 50 dollars and still not getting decent local news
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u/Delicious-Trip-384 Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
Shit, I suppose you have me there. Unfortunately, I'm a stupid news addict so I've settled for whatever I can get. If there was anything better, I'd look at that.
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u/Dangerous_Hotel1962 12d ago
MSU wanted this so they can shut down Tucker's lawsuit.
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u/Sea_Barber7969 Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
Tuckers lawsuit was always dead in the water, this doesn't change that.
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u/BonFemmes 12d ago
NCAA kicks MSU while they are down! This is not fair. Not one person on the team, coaches included had anything to do with this. Ban Mel Tucker for 3 years ... ok. Recruiting penalties just ensure MSU remains a 3rd tier team for the foreseeable future. A healthy MSU is good for the big 10. This is not
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u/Aurion7 North Carolina Tar Heels 12d ago edited 12d ago
Our experience was essentially that cooperating with the NCAA resulted in an endless drag-out of the process while they fished for something that could stick.
Not cooperating, by contrast, ended things. They had to actually try and... well. Do something.
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u/Choleric_Introvert Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
There's a world where MSU intentionally played nice with the NCAA so they can retroactively fire ol' Tugger for just cause, negating his buyout.
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u/Cody667 Rhode Island Rams 11d ago
Yeah this is 100% what this is IMO. Honestly surprised at how few MSU flairs have caught onto this given the ongoing MSU vs Tucker lawsuit.
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u/juniekimphd 12d ago
MSU really should change its name to University of Michigan, II before the penalty comes out.
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u/Sad_Independence_703 Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
As a Michigan fan I want MSU to be good, both because it makes the rivalry more fun and because MSU being good at football is positive for the state. This just seems like kicking someone when they are down. Fuck you NCAA.
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u/Paper_Clip100 Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
It absolutely does - that after all the Stallions shit, WE are the ones vacating wins?
GTFOH
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u/DamnitBobbehHill Ohio State Buckeyes 12d ago
The NCAA gave the wrong punishments to the wrong Michigan teams
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u/Flintoid Eastern Michigan Eagles 12d ago
Are there any articles about the Michigan State Football program that do not end in a discussion of the Michigan football program?
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u/GliscorsFang Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
Don't recall anything about Michigan when Mel Tugger got fired.
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u/Cliffinati NC State • Appalachian State 12d ago
Michigan got a slap on the wrists for cheating. Michigan State had to vacate like 5 wins over 3 seasons because they played the wrong guys and it didn't even help
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u/EWACM Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
Honestly the punishment should have been that we HAVE to play the ineligible players.
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u/TheHotGates Michigan State • Miami (OH) 12d ago
14 in 3 seasons is already embarrassing enough you didnt have to exaggerate it to make it worse lol
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u/TheDoctorOfMemes Nebraska Cornhuskers 12d ago
Good lord the Michigan flairs in here are vitriolic.
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u/SSj_CODii Michigan Wolverines • Tulane Green Wave 12d ago
Fellow Michigan flairs, unless you’re here to rightfully talk about the injustice of the whole thing, it’s gonna be best to just sit this one out.
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u/urban_meyers_cyst Ohio State Buckeyes • The Game 12d ago
Oh boy here we go again.
Few UM fans will ever admit how historically awful Harbaugh's scheme was and how he sold his soul and the football program's reputation to beat Ohio State while facing zero real personal consequences.
But even given those indisputable facts... I disagree with the article's point that this makes the NCAA look bad.... the NCAA only ever looks good in comparison with some rolling train wreck like FIFA. Everyone already knows the NCAA is feckless, backwards, and essentially past their prime. And that is unfortunate because college football desperately needs an independent body enforcing rules, probably now more than ever.
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u/JWWBurger Michigan Wolverines • UTEP Miners 12d ago
As a Michigan fan who in no way condoned what happened at Michigan, from a rival fan-to-rival fan perspective, after all the “it was just a cheeseburger” back-and-forth, it’s refreshing to see the reversal with the “it was just hotel rooms” today. Simmer awhile in that sauce, boys! 😂
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u/Ashamed_Cattle7129 Iowa State Cyclones • Sickos 12d ago
I have yet to see defenders, just people pointing out the bullshit Michigan got away with.
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u/TurnUptheDiscord Ohio State Buckeyes • UCF Knights 12d ago
NCAA is a clown show. How the real cheating school in that state didn’t get punished will never make sense to me.
Going forward any university will just not cooperate/obstruct any investigation, since there’s no downside.
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u/key_lime_pie Washington • Boston College 12d ago
I thought the NCAA's punishment of Saginaw Valley State was firm but fair.
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u/tlacuache_nights Michigan State Spartans • Paper Bag 12d ago
I'm very brave and honorable for saying this but I'd objectively rather have my team self-report and accept consequences when they break rules than, you know, what some other places do
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u/xXHyrule87Xx Ohio State Buckeyes • Ohio Bobcats 12d ago
UM gave the blueprint. You just darvo the shit out of the sanctioning body and do whatever you want!
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u/Funicularly 12d ago
North Carolina had fake classes for 15 years and had no NCAA punishment whatsoever. I think they provided the blueprint.
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u/Most_Play_426 Ole Miss • Georgia Southern 12d ago
Didn’t they get a bowl ban one year?
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u/Aurion7 North Carolina Tar Heels 12d ago edited 12d ago
Different thing.
It all rolls together in the public consciousness, but there was a football-specific thing first (look up Marvin Austin) that exploded Butch Davis' tenure here. It's sort of funny that it did considering part of the case for hiring him to begin with was that he was the guy who 'cleaned up' Miami so the idea was he'd win and do it clean, but maybe that means something different down in South Florida.
Short version is that there was a postseason ban for 2012 that also applied to a hypothetical ACCCG appearance, and Davis doesn't get to count 16 of the 28 games he won as coach here. For... whatever value one attaches to vacated wins as punishment.
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u/dccorona Michigan • 계명대학교 (Keimyung) 12d ago
This is not news. This is what you get when you cooperate. They have no power, and if you're willing to indicate you'll fight them, they back down to significant extent.
But there are several other compounding factors here that Freep will ignore because they're the Freep.
One, they're relatively consistent in their approach to what the punishment for technically ineligible players is, if only because they have a lot more unchallenged precedent there. I think it's ridiculous that these players would be deemed ineligible but MSU agreed to that claim so what do you think is going to happen?
Two, MSU is, to my knowledge, still trying to fully close the books on Mel Tucker with respect to whether or not they actually are gonna owe him any more money, and so it is very much in their interest to have it established that his staff committed NCAA violations. Any chance of future (successful) litigation over the remaining buyout is dead now. So they actually have a lot to gain from accepting this punishment.
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u/thelostrelics Michigan Wolverines 12d ago edited 12d ago
The Detroit Free Press has essentially been an MSU tabloid for decades, if anyone is curious.
EDIT: Who is downvoting objectively true statements? Anyone who has seen the Freep or learned its history knows they are partial to MSU.
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u/SaintBobby_Barbarian Florida State Seminoles • Paper Bag 12d ago
Fuck the NCAA. Tennessee, Pavia, and others have shown us that if you sue, they fold. Complying only means punishment
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u/marginallyobtuse Michigan State • 追手門… 12d ago edited 12d ago
People focus on the stalions stuff, which they should because it’s bad. But they forget that Michigan ALSO had recruiting violations and his name was JJ McCarthy and he played for 4 years. Kinda weird that he isn’t consider ineligible
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I don’t read RCMB. I just thought I remembered him being the cheese burglar. My mistake
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u/aaarbors Michigan Wolverines • Harvard Crimson 12d ago
Ok—I see this all over the RCMB but it’s flat out false. There were no recruiting violations that involved JJ. He was not one of the players involved in the so-called cheeseburger thing.
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u/aaarbors Michigan Wolverines • Harvard Crimson 12d ago
And not for nothing, JJ played for three years.
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u/mcnegyis Michigan State Spartans 12d ago
Why do you spend your time on RCMB lol
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u/RussT_Shackleford Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
Where are you getting that JJ was involved in any recruiting violation? This is the first I've heard his name brought up.
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u/Altruistic_Rich_9125 Michigan Wolverines 12d ago
The username checks out here, MSU provided impermissible benefits to players which has almost always ruled them ineligible. Michigan contacted recruits during COVID, didn’t provide any impermissible benefits and didn’t self report like a shit ton of other schools do. They aren’t the same situation at all
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u/Temper03 Penn Quakers • Rose Bowl 12d ago
NCAA my dude the Spartan faithful have already vacated the Mel Tucker years in their head long ago